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gemrich- 4th from the goal?

  • Just got a DVR.... (and just two months ago I figured out how to get the 12:00 from flashing on the VCR)... I am catapulting into the 21st century.

    Anyway, rewatching the game a couple times this weekend, which I really enjoyed and gave me a much better perspective than watching at live or at full speed... I have a question for you, if you get a chance to focus on it during your review.

    On the 4th down play from the goalline, what in the world was Pannell doing? If the play was for SIlas to go over the top, I don't think he would be pulling? ... Did he not know the play ( I know you have no way to answer that). At the snap he bailed out, took a few steps back before ever engaging contact then was running down hill parallel to the line of scrimmage... it was bizarre to say the least... was he setting up a fake run to the corner by pulling and trying to get the defense to key on his movement and creating a hole for Silas at the LOS...

    signature image

    NotoriousGMan

  • The key play in that series was the 3rd down playcall. PSU had a variety of options open to them, with QB sneak being at the very bottom of that list.

    we could have gone with another FB dive. We could have gone with a PA boot. We could have faked the FB dive, and went with a pitch. Or we could have done what we did, but the problem is McGloin NEVER....I repeat, NEVER lets the blocking develop on any sneak he does. The second he got the ball he immediately went to his right, and without watching looked like he tried to put his back into the pile and drive it...but he didn't give either the C or the G a chance to get any kind of push.

    McGloin does a lot of things in a sub-par nature, but his QB sneaks are horrendous.

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    white_out

  • I hope the next coach has the guts to throw it in that situation

    BaltLions24

  • We had the guts to do it against Iowa. I don't know why one of those 4 plays wasn't PA on Saturday.

    beck881psu

  • Agreed, but regardless of play call... the execution appeared to be pretty bad on the whole 4 down series... as Whiteout mentioned on the sneak, McGloin never gave it a chance and I have to wonder what was really going on with the 4th down play... seemed very unorganized... Silas went up and came down short with out even being caught in mid-air... he didnt even land on a pile of bodies that could have carried him forward...

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    NotoriousGMan

  • hoping to finish up the review this morning and get the column written later today.

    gemrich

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    Agreed, but regardless of play call... the execution appeared to be pretty bad on the whole 4 down series... as Whiteout mentioned on the sneak, McGloin never gave it a chance and I have to wonder what was really going on with the 4th down play... seemed very unorganized... Silas went up and came down short with out even being caught in mid-air... he didnt even land on a pile of bodies that could have carried him forward...

    Exactly. QB sneak was dumb.....that is true. But given 4 chances to move the ball a yard or so, have to be able to do it.

    I almost would have considered putting the bigger Bolden in for the sneak...minus the fact he had no action at all and that could make the snap more tricky. Or spread the field out 4 wide. That limits them from putting any more than 7 in the box. Then bring in Drake or Belton to take the snap.

    Oh well...live and learn. It was scraps first time deciding on the goal line situation. If it happens again, I'm sure he'll adapt.

    My guess is Scap figured "If we don't get it, then with Still we have a shot at a safety...which would be just about the same as a FG anyway, forcing OSU to score twice basically.

    This post was edited by md154 on 11/21/2011 at 9:18 AM

    md154

  • I have NO issues going for it on 4th there. Scrap figured that was the nail in the coffin and forces OSU to abandon the run game.

    that 3rd down call though. Wow.

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    white_out

  • md154 said...

    I almost would have considered putting the bigger Bolden in for the sneak...minus the fact he had no action at all and that could make the snap more tricky.

    At least you had the good sense to realize your suggestion was idiotic.

    F the NCAA F the BOT F ESPN F Sandusky

    PSU42Fan

  • white_out said...

    I have NO issues going for it on 4th there. Scrap figured that was the nail in the coffin and forces OSU to abandon the run game.

    that 3rd down call though. Wow.

    If we had kicked a FG, we would've been up 9 points. That would've been enough to force MIller to beat us with his arm.

    A two-possession game is a two-possession game, especially in the 4th Quarter.

    F the NCAA F the BOT F ESPN F Sandusky

    PSU42Fan

  • I agree 42... at the time, watching the game... I was pumped up to go for it and loved the aggressive call... and maybe Scrap got caught up in the emotion too...

    However, re-watching it a couple times yesterday, and letting it slow down a bit... you gotta take the points there and make it a two possession game. If they had come down 99 yds and scored a TD to take the lead, that would have been the stake to the heart and not only led to a loss in a meaningless game, at least from a standings viewpoint... but it would have crippled our confidence going into Wisky and all those clamoring for scrap to get the head job today, would be calling for his head instead.

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    NotoriousGMan

  • PSU42Fan said...

    If we had kicked a FG, we would've been up 9 points. That would've been enough to force MIller to beat us with his arm.

    A two-possession game is a two-possession game, especially in the 4th Quarter.

    The goal line stand happened with ~5 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter I thought.

    We kick a FG, they still have roughly 20 minutes to get a TD, and a FG, which is far easier to get than 2 TD's.

    if it were the 4th quarter, you absolutely are right, kick the FG.

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    white_out

  • If we run the ball 4 times win a RB we get in.

    Run 2 with Beachum and 2 with Silas, guaranteed TD from the 1.

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    I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said.

    psu2013

  • white_out said...

    The goal line stand happened with ~5 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter I thought.

    We kick a FG, they still have roughly 20 minutes to get a TD, and a FG, which is far easier to get than 2 TD's.

    if it were the 4th quarter, you absolutely are right, kick the FG.

    It was in the third quarter, no wrong way to go on that play, no problem with them going for it, no problem if they decided to kick it. To answer the OP's question, Pannell was pulling, just wasn't able to get anywhere because of the interior surge by OSU. Not uncommon to see an OL pull on quick hitting power plays for short yardage, PSU does it plenty.

    gemrich

  • psu2013 said...

    If we run the ball 4 times win a RB we get in.

    Run 2 with Beachum and 2 with Silas, guaranteed TD from the 1.

    I shall be making this exact argument in UFR.

    gemrich

  • gemrich said...

    I shall be making this exact argument in UFR.

    Great minds think alike.

    Especially with Zordich lead blocking.

    Anyone see Zordich's block on the Redd TD against Illinois? That TD was almost entirely because of him.

    This post was edited by psu2013 on 11/21/2011 at 12:42 PM

    signature image

    I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said.

    psu2013

  • I will admit, I am not a big X and O guy...gem, what was the design on that play? Pannell wasn't pulling to be a lead blocker, Silas went right in the spot he vacated... is this done by design in hopes that the D keys on Pannell pulling, and they pursue in that direction, and open a hole in the defense that he vacated?
    I just don't understand what they were trying to accomplish by pulling him around, if Silas wasn't following.

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    NotoriousGMan

  • psu2013 said...

    Great minds think alike.

    Especially with Zordich lead blocking.

    Anyone see Zordich's block on the Redd TD against Illinois? That TD was almost entirely because of him.

    And Zordich isn't a good runner. He's just a bigger back, that's it. And Penn State had success running the ball with their halfbacks all game. Just put Redd or Green or Beachum in and lead with Zordich and call it a day. Or, they could have gotten tricky and faked the fullback dive either time and pitched it to the halfback, who OSU completely ignored both times. There really was no excuse for not scoring there.

    gemrich

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    I will admit, I am not a big X and O guy...gem, what was the design on that play? Pannell wasn't pulling to be a lead blocker, Silas went right in the spot he vacated... is this done by design in hopes that the D keys on Pannell pulling, and they pursue in that direction, and open a hole in the defense that he vacated? I just don't understand what they were trying to accomplish by pulling him around, if Silas wasn't following.

    Well, we don't know what the exact design was. Pannell had no chance to get to where ever he was going because of the immediate surge, and Redd probably improvised because of the same thing.

    gemrich

  • Some other observations, that gem may hit on, that really stood out to me.

    Now i understand what gavin has been talking about with Hill. Though Still gets most of the credit, both on these boards and nationally... Hill was just a monster all game that never stops... one particular play, I believe when he forced the fumble... he destroyed #74 for OSU... #74 was pretty obviously the weak link on their OL.
    I tried to pay attention to Carson a bit more, because he seems like a guy that at full speed just doesnt stand out, or make the spectacular plays that we see from Hodges or even Stupar... but I though Carson played well. But there was one play, second half, where Shugarts sealed off a hole by blocking Carson, it was almost comical... it literally looked like Shugarts had glue on his jersey, and Carson was stuck to him just flailing to get off and there was nothing he could do to get away from him until the play was over...
    The other play that really caught my attention, was a play by Fortt in the second half... it was a running play, and Fortt got caught up inside initially and was blocked to the ground... the play got downfield a few yards and Sukay was tailing the runner, Fortt came full speed from about 15 yds away, after getting up off the ground to track the runner down and laid a real smack on the ball carrier too... I had to rewind it 2-3 times, because I was sure Fortt got knocked to the ground initially and it seemed impossible he made up that much ground, besides Sukay there must have been 4-5 other white shirts between Fortt and the ball carrier and he beat them all to the kid, and laid the wood... Excited to see more of him in the future.

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    NotoriousGMan

  • actually, I thought Hill and Still were pretty much completely handled all game. I would rate OSU's offensive line performance against our interior line as the best all season, including Bama and Iowa. Go back and just watch the interior play on every snap. They kicked our ass.

    gemrich

  • white_out said...

    The goal line stand happened with ~5 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter I thought.

    We kick a FG, they still have roughly 20 minutes to get a TD, and a FG, which is far easier to get than 2 TD's.

    if it were the 4th quarter, you absolutely are right, kick the FG.

    My bad - for some reason I had 4th quarter in my brain.

    As it was, our defense was still asked to win the game for the next 20 minutes. That won't cut it against Wisky.

    F the NCAA F the BOT F ESPN F Sandusky

    PSU42Fan

  • We will have to be aggressive on offense the entire game. We cannot let up like we did against Ohio State. I like Bradley, but I want a coach who goes all out all the time. We have never had that. This whole staff was brainwarped by Joe. We need to be more aggressive and catch up with the times. Sorry Joe, I have not dissed you in a while!! I think this is part of my healing process, guys!! Forgive me!!

    ...and if you're not down with that, then I got 2 words for ya.."suck it!!"

    paupacklion

  • paupacklion said...

    We will have to be aggressive on offense the entire game. We cannot let up like we did against Ohio State. I like Bradley, but I want a coach who goes all out all the time. We have never had that. This whole staff was brainwarped by Joe. We need to be more aggressive and catch up with the times. Sorry Joe, I have not dissed you in a while!! I think this is part of my healing process, guys!! Forgive me!!

    Going for it on 4th and 1 on the goalline isnt going all out?

    signature image

    I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said.

    psu2013

  • psu2013 said...

    Going for it on 4th and 1 on the goalline isnt going all out?

    No, going for it on fourth down was stupid. You always have to take the points when they are available. I am talking about the overall play-calling in the second half. We just were not keeping them off balance like we did in the first half. We were protecting a lead, instead of hitting the gas pedal.

    ...and if you're not down with that, then I got 2 words for ya.."suck it!!"

    paupacklion