The Lions' Pride

If you want to have an intelligent discussion, I'm all for it, but at this point it seems like you're doing the old "declaring internet victory while simultaneously failing to make a single argument".

Let's put it this way, Ron Zook left him a roster that could win 2 MNC's. He left Will Muschamp a roster/program in shambles.

I don't think they're meaningless. I think I said at the beginning of the thread that we will all have pretty good classes, ranked in the top 10-15 (I even think I said that I believe OSU will have the best of the three) and because of that coaching will matter the most from here on out. And finding talent that fits your scheme.

I have also said while I thought the UF roster wasn't managed as well as it should have been (Muschamp said it, UF fans have said it, I'm from there and still have a lot of friends who are talking about the mess they were left with), I thought most of the issues that Muschamp had were attitude and scheme switch.

I don't think anyone believes Meyer is a bad coach. Some think he is a bad dude. Some think he is overrated because of his lack of success without his top assistants. But I think saying Meyer is a bad coach is wrong, and very few people here truly believe that.

Also, remember where you are. Every time you go to another team's message board not everything is rational. God knows Bucknuts its...well..nuts as well. Relax, talk football and don't talk down. Still in our house buddy. Emulate AD28.

Jesus.

Speaking of Northwestern, if Pat Fitzgerald ever leaves (which wont happen because he loves it there) he could do work. He is an amazing recruiter in person

Alright, you clearly don't know much about college football.

Most rational PSU fans will tell you Joe should have hung them up in the late 90's. He clearly lost something during that time frame, but before that he blew Urbs out of the water.

PSU played in national titles in 1978, 1982, 1985 and 1986. We won in 82 and 86. If we hadn't been in the big ten we would have played Nebraska in the national title in 1994. (Also if Dick Nixon doesn't award Texas the title in 69 that's probaly another one, but I wont use that for this argument.)

So thats 5 national title games in 16 years. That run is better than anything Tressel did, and its better than anything Urban will do.

Joe was best the recruiter and coach in the country for years. Our big ten "brethren" got to know the old Joe who just wasn't the same. That wasn't always the case.

Please go away now.

Another thread going southward fairly quick. Go figure.......

This is a real cop out. I've been nothing but civil. I never once made any claim about Meyer. I said that, looking at the numbers, I don't see any clear roster management issues and you disagreed. But when pressed about why you disagreed you have refused to offer anything. You have not offered a coherent point.

Again, I've been nothing but civil and engaged in football discussion. I also haven't engaged in any of the derogatory talk about any coaches or programs. Simply pressed for exact reasons people said our roster, at this moment and with our recruiting, has management issues. That's the only discussion I attempted to have. Note, you are also now the ony person engaging in immature internet tough guy talk.

Yes star grabbed his way to 2 national titles lol I love the Urban shots just hilarioius

What he said.
I enjoy you posting here AD, even if we don't agree on everything.
I wish fans of every team were more tolerant towards rival fans coming over to have rational discussion.

That was a helluva run JoPa had there through the mid-90's and was definitely better than Tressel's run of 10 years for many reasons. However, Woody had a fairly nice run himself from 1968 through 1975. Now, this was in the old Bowl era and was also at a time when the B1G only sent 1 team to bowl games. The '68 team won the NC, the '69 team was even better and ranked No. 1 the entire year until the stunning upset at the hands of Michigan in Bo's first year. The '70 won a piece of a National Title (Not AP or UPI), but lost out on the AP and UPI by getting upset by Jim Plunkett and Stanford in the Rose Bowl. The '73 was ranked number 1 much of the year, tied Michigan and then went out to the Rose Bowl and thumped SC to finish second. The '75 team was ranked number 1 all season and was ranked 1 going into the Rose Bowl game against a UCLA team that they had beaten in Los Angeles in September by 21. Again, UCLA with Dick Vermeil upset OSU. So, in that 8 year span without getting upset 3 times and tied once, Woody could have won 5 in 8 years. Woulda, coulda, shoulda though. Woody still got 3 consensus titles and 2 other "disputed titles ('61 and '70) in his 28 years and was himself a great recruiter. One of the great things that gets overlooked about Woody because of his off the field issues was he was one of the first coaches to really recruit african-americans hard. Sadly we miss coaches such as JoPa, Woody and Bo....may they rest in peace.