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What is it going to take?

  • tdiddy said...

    Sure, they could theorhetically force Joe out...but it would come at the expense of a public mess (which the Paterno family would create) that the BOT and especially Spanier do not want to deal with.

    Can you please explain to me what public mess the Paterno's could possibly create. I admit you are a smarter man than I, but for the life of me I can't see any mess the Paterno's could make in public (especially after FSU had success with their decision with an ever younger coach). What could they say or do that would make people upset for NOT offering an 85 year old man who isn't performing all his duties a new contract? What public mess?

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • PiV said...

    Well Pete, you're thinking like a fan not a trustee or University administrator. If your line of reasoning were correct, Joe would have been gone in the 2001-2004 period. The landscape isn't significantly different other than Joe's health. If the football quality of the program wasn't enough for Joe to be forced out then, it certainly isn't enough now.

    They tried to get him to leave, he went back on his public pledge of leaving if the University thought it was best and that he wasn't the best decision anymore etc.

    Joe's health IS worse and will get worse and the on field product blows and he is now 84.

    What I am doing is thinking in the best interest of the program?University and NOT the best interest of Joe Paterno.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • PiV said...

    Eh, not so much. It was pretty damn ugly there for awhile back in 2004 and I don't think it has reached the same level of outrage as then, at least not yet.

    Well, I attended those games, and I choose not to anymore. I am way, way more fed up. Maybe it is just me, but Joe looks about 100 times more selfish now than he did back then.

    POV

  • sneakypete said...

    Can you please explain to me what public mess the Paterno's could possibly create. I admit you are a smarter man than I, but for the life of me I can't see any mess the Paterno's could make in public (especially after FSU had success with their decision with an ever younger coach). What could they say or do that would make people upset for NOT offering an 85 year old man who isn't performing all his duties a new contract? What public mess?

    I don't get it either, but we are on the same side of this debate.

    POV

  • POV said...

    I don't get it either, but we are on the same side of this debate.

    I just wish someone could explain to me what public mess would happen. I actually think the opposite would happen. I think Joe would look bad if he tried to do anything.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • sneakypete said...

    I just wish someone could explain to me what public mess would happen. I actually think the opposite would happen. I think Joe would look bad if he tried to do anything.

    I agree. PSU would just need to shut up and not respond to the Paternos. Let them have their piece, and if Joe goes back on his word that he would go if that is what the University desires, he will look like the smaller man that he has become.

    POV

  • sneakypete said...

    I just wish someone could explain to me what public mess would happen. I actually think the opposite would happen. I think Joe would look bad if he tried to do anything.

    You really can't imagine the PR nightmare that would come from this, not to mention the potential fall out when Joe's big money allies are potentially factored in to the equation? You can't be that naive to not realize how ugly it could get if Joe wanted to go that way. Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it could. I know the culture of Penn State. I've worked in it for nearly 28 years. It is a risk adverse culture. Taking chances is not high on the list of valued qualities. Even beginning the process of trying to marshal the forces to make it happen is a tricky and challenging task. A case can be made for your line of reasoning, but forcing Joe out is a risk that Spanier is unlikely willing to take. Again, the wild card is Joe's health. Everything changes if his health should worsen.

    PiV

  • PiV said...

    You really can't imagine the PR nightmare that would come from this, not to mention the potential fall out when Joe's big money allies are potentially factored in to the equation? You can't be that naive to not realize how ugly it could get if Joe wanted to go that way. Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it could. I know the culture of Penn State. I've worked in it for nearly 28 years. It is a risk adverse culture. Taking chances is not high on the list of valued qualities. Even beginning the process of trying to marshal the forces to make it happen is a tricky and challenging task. A case can be made for your line of reasoning, but forcing Joe out is a risk that Spanier is unlikely willing to take. Again, the wild card is Joe's health. Everything changes if his health should worsen.

    I get the "Joe's big moeny allies" part, but I guess I am too dense to see the rest of it. Are you talking about the media? The 2 or 3 commentators that actually disagree will not be remembered after 3 days of yapping about it.

    Again, this is with PSU shutting up and not saying anything negative, other than we are going in another direction.

    POV

  • sneakypete said...

    Can you please explain to me what public mess the Paterno's could possibly create. I admit you are a smarter man than I, but for the life of me I can't see any mess the Paterno's could make in public (especially after FSU had success with their decision with an ever younger coach). What could they say or do that would make people upset for NOT offering an 85 year old man who isn't performing all his duties a new contract? What public mess?

    You're thinking national media, which would blow over quickly. Im talking trouble with a lot of ppl of influence and $$$ around PSU. First, PSU doesnt want Joe to look bad...ever. You know that. So why would they want him to look bad walking out the door? They do everything they can to keep him propped up. Second, I don't see one scenario where the entire BOT would ever support such a move, so there would be internal dissention. Third, Joe wouldn't be the one doing all the talking. But the person who would likes to talk, and has a lot of ppl who would listen. And her claws come out most vehemently when her nest is threatened.

    signature image signature image signature image

    tdiddy

  • PiV said...

    You really can't imagine the PR nightmare that would come from this, not to mention the potential fall out when Joe's big money allies are potentially factored in to the equation? You can't be that naive to not realize how ugly it could get if Joe wanted to go that way. Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it could. I know the culture of Penn State. I've worked in it for nearly 28 years. It is a risk adverse culture. Taking chances is not high on the list of valued qualities. Even beginning the process of trying to marshal the forces to make it happen is a tricky and challenging task. A case can be made for your line of reasoning, but forcing Joe out is a risk that Spanier is unlikely willing to take. Again, the wild card is Joe's health. Everything changes if his health should worsen.

    I can't see any PR nightmare. Please tell me what PR nightmare? Again, they allowed an 85 year old man to finish out his contract even while not performing all the required duties. Please explain to me what PR mess would happen?

    I can see Joe's big money donor's causing a bit of a problem but that's it. I can't see any PR mess and noone can seem to explain it to me.

    In regards to Joe's big money donors, this is why I want PSU to go public. Either Joe goes quietly or exposes himself as a liar among other things. If he goes to his donors and has them threaten to stop donating to PSU or whatever it would again show Joe is not who he claims to be and that he cares only about himself. It could backfire big time for Joe. If I was Spanier/BOT I would threaten to expose what Joe is doing and threatening. Joe would lose any PR battle if PSU actually fought the battle.

    All I know is the past 10 years tell me that Joe is not the man he claims to be in public and I have very little respect for him anymore and I think of him very different then I ever have. He is a selfish man who cares only about himself and his family. The money and time he has donated to PSU have all been to gain power and not because he cares for the University. That's exactly how I feel and can't see how any rational thinking person can see it otherwise.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • tdiddy said...

    . But the person who would likes to talk, and has a lot of ppl who would listen. And her claws come out most vehemently when her nest is threatened.

    she would come across terribly and would sound worse than Joe after a cold day in Columbus 2010

    This post was edited by POV on 9/18/2011 at 9:29 PM

    POV

  • POV said...

    she would come across terribly and would sound worse than Joe after a cold day in Columbus 2010

    To some. There is an equal and opposite reaction to every viewpoint. Trust me...there are plenty of influential people who would listen. We also know there's a certain son who likes to campaign a little bit. This whole thing involves the removal of a family, who has institutionalized themselves. It's just a really fragile thing...and it wouldn't make sense to many of us in the younger crowd. But I've been told repeatedly by people who know way more than me...things in SC work in their own special way.

    FTR, I would look at the family as way out of line for making a spectacle of the issue, and I pray they wouldn't if Joe were 'removed'. But you don't survive in power for close to 50 years without knowing how to pull the strings and avoid someone knocking you off your perch.

    Ask yourselves, 'If it were so simple, why haven't they done it by now'? One, because PSU is mutually interested in preserving Joe for their own reasons. Two, because there's nothing simple about Clan Paterno.

    signature image signature image signature image

    tdiddy

  • I know. I was being a dick with my previous response. But, did you see when Bowden's wife started campaigning/complaining for Bobby? It just made Bobby look really small and weak. I think the same would happen here.

    POV

  • tdiddy said...

    Ask yourselves, 'If it were so simple, why haven't they done it by now'? One, because PSU is mutually interested in preserving Joe for their own reasons. Two, because there's nothing simple about Clan Paterno.

    Cause they have been the bigger person in all this. They could remove him easily and make sure that Joe would come out looking bad for doing what he is doing. They should treat Joe the way he is treating the University/program.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • POV said...

    I know. I was being a dick with my previous response. But, did you see when Bowden's wife started campaigning/complaining for Bobby? It just made Bobby look really small and weak. I think the same would happen here.

    I agree. I think any going public by any Paterno would look bad on them. It would expose what many of us already know.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • sneakypete said...

    I can't see any PR nightmare. Please tell me what PR nightmare? Again, they allowed an 85 year old man to finish out his contract even while not performing all the required duties. Please explain to me what PR mess would happen?

    I can see Joe's big money donor's causing a bit of a problem but that's it. I can't see any PR mess and noone can seem to explain it to me.

    In regards to Joe's big money donors, this is why I want PSU to go public. Either Joe goes quietly or exposes himself as a liar among other things. If he goes to his donors and has them threaten to stop donating to PSU or whatever it would again show Joe is not who he claims to be and that he cares only about himself. It could backfire big time for Joe. If I was Spanier/BOT I would threaten to expose what Joe is doing and threatening. Joe would lose any PR battle if PSU actually fought the battle.

    All I know is the past 10 years tell me that Joe is not the man he claims to be in public and I have very little respect for him anymore and I think of him very different then I ever have. He is a selfish man who cares only about himself and his family. The money and time he has donated to PSU have all been to gain power and not because he cares for the University. That's exactly how I feel and can't see how any rational thinking person can see it otherwise.

    Dude...any negative PR is a PR nightmare to the powers that run PSU. It's 100x worse if it involves their crown jewel. That's just how it is. Anything less than either Joe's consent or Joe's demise would be met with some amount of negative PR. Regardless of our crowd on the boards, we both know that there are PLENTY of die hard Joe supporters who feel that he is completely justified to live out his days as the HC.

    Also, why would PSU ever want to pick a fight with Joe? Why would they ever want Joe's reputation to be tarnished? That would be the absolute worst case scenario for PSU. That would result in permanent separation with the Paterno family and a far more public, messy divorce than simply allowing him to coach until he dies. PSU doesn't do things that way. You want them to turn it into reality TV. That's just not how they do things.

    signature image signature image signature image

    tdiddy

  • hahaha. Pete has his fourth star. I say that lasts till about 8:00 AM tomorrow when the apologists show their face around here.

    POV

  • POV said...

    hahaha. Pete has his fourth star. I say that lasts till about 8:00 AM tomorrow when the apologists show their face around here.

    woops. It lasted less than a minute, apparently

    POV

  • I'm on sneaky's side on this. For those of you who have some inside knowledge, what percentage of donations would go away if Joe's freakin' wife throws a hissy fit? Who cares if Jay blogs 24 hrs/day? Conversely, how many donors come out of the woodwork as soon as he's gone?

    signature image

    “We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill

    psujmc1992

  • tdiddy said...

    Also, why would PSU ever want to pick a fight with Joe? Why would they ever want Joe's reputation to be tarnished? That would be the absolute worst case scenario for PSU. That would result in permanent separation with the Paterno family and a far more public, messy divorce than simply allowing him to coach until he dies. PSU doesn't do things that way. You want them to turn it into reality TV. That's just not how they do things.

    They don't. However, if Joe wants to play that game they shouldn't back down and it is in the best interest of the program which is more important then Joe.

    I don't want them to turn it into reality TV. I want them to do the right thing and think about the program and not Joe. If it went the way of reality tv that would be by Joe's doing so I am fine with them exposing who he really is.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • Well Pete you not seeing it and it not happening are two very different things. The PR generated in the national media would be bad, but probably not of the biggest concern to the University administrators. It would be the internal chaos within the true power brokers and big money folks that could cause the most harm. There is nothing I can say to make you see it. You have your mind made up, but I don't think you appreciate the way the University works nor how tightly woven into the power structure the Paternos are. If Joe does not go willingly, it will be ugly. I have spoken to people within the University that are both football fans and in the upper-most levels of the University administration and all that I have personally spoken to share the opinion that a) it is unlikely that the University would force Joe out, and b) if they did, it would be ugly. I doubt Spanier has the political capital to expend on this fight, especially given that the product on the field is still viable and the money is still flowing.

    PiV

  • psujmc1992 said...

    I'm on sneaky's side on this. For those of you who have some inside knowledge, what percentage of donations would go away if Joe's freakin' wife throws a hissy fit? Who cares if Jay blogs 24 hrs/day? Conversely, how many donors come out of the woodwork as soon as he's gone?

    Not to mention do what I say, if Joe has his donors threaten call his/their bluff by telling them you will go public with the threat. Joe would lose that battle and be forced to back off.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • PiV said...

    Well Pete you not seeing it and it not happening are two very different things. The PR generated in the national media would be bad, but probably not of the biggest concern to the University administrators. It would be the internal chaos within the true power brokers and big money folks that could cause the most harm. There is nothing I can say to make you see it. You have your mind made up, but I don't think you appreciate the way the University works nor how tightly woven into the power structure the Paternos are. If Joe does not go willingly, it will be ugly. I have spoken to people within the University that are both football fans and in the upper-most levels of the University administration and all that I have personally spoken to share the opinion that a) it is unlikely that the University would force Joe out, and b) if they did, it would be ugly. I doubt Spanier has the political capital to expend on this fight, especially given that the product on the field is still viable and the money is still flowing.

    I don't think there would be any negative PR from the national media.

    What I don't appreciate is what Joe is doing and I'd like to see him exposed.

    I also don't appreciate anyone who will put Joe ahead of the University/program. I'd like to see them removed along with Joe.

    What would stop Joe from forcing Jay to be the next HC if that was his or Sue's wish if everyone is afraid of a mess and only want to kowtow to Joe and his threats?

    I hate fake people. I'm an a$$hole and I don't pretend not to be. I say what I think/feel and I am brutally honest. Joe apparently is fake. No other way to put it.

    This post was edited by sneakypete on 9/18/2011 at 10:31 PM

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • PiV said...

    Well Pete you not seeing it and it not happening are two very different things. The PR generated in the national media would be bad, but probably not of the biggest concern to the University administrators. It would be the internal chaos within the true power brokers and big money folks that could cause the most harm. There is nothing I can say to make you see it. You have your mind made up, but I don't think you appreciate the way the University works nor how tightly woven into the power structure the Paternos are. If Joe does not go willingly, it will be ugly. I have spoken to people within the University that are both football fans and in the upper-most levels of the University administration and all that I have personally spoken to share the opinion that a) it is unlikely that the University would force Joe out, and b) if they did, it would be ugly. I doubt Spanier has the political capital to expend on this fight, especially given that the product on the field is still viable and the money is still flowing.

    For the record, I understand what you are saying and I'm sure you are correct. It just pisses me off.

    Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured .but not prove they're a citizen

    sneakypete

  • sneakypete said...

    I don't think there would be any negative PR from the national media.

    What I don't appreciate is what Joe is doing and I'd like to see him exposed.

    I also don't appreciate anyone who will put Joe ahead of the University/program. I'd like to see them removed along with Joe.

    What would stop Joe from forcing Jay to be the next HC if that was his or Sue's wish if everyone is afraid of a mess and only want to kowtow to Joe and his threats?

    I hate fake people. I'm an a$$hole and I don't pretend not to be. I say what I think/feel and I am brutally honest. Joe apparently is fake.

    Same, JoePa is past the point of Bobby Bowden, when he got the boot he could still do press conferences / pretend to coach.

    Yes

    Yes

    Yes

    You're an a$$hole?liar

    This post was edited by ejb5212 on 9/18/2011 at 10:37 PM

    signature image

    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

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