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Upon Further Review: Week Nine

  • http://pennstate.247sports.com/Article/Upon-Further-Review-Week-Nine-46642

    Upon Further Review is back to take a final look at the Nittany Lions' 10-7 win over Illinois on Saturday.

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    Sean Fitz ●

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    Follow me on Twitter @Lions247 sfitz@247Sports.com

    Sean Fitz ●

  • gemrich said...

    On the crazy, almost Hodges sack where he’s hanging on to Scheelhaase’s foot, two things of note- One, Hill was being bear hugged right in front of an official. Two, pretty sure he didn’t catch that ball, about 90 percent sure, but also doubt it would have been overturned.

    I thought, and said aloud, the same thing. That was NOT a catch, but based on the two crappy review angles, they weren't going to overturn it.

    Bad call, but couldn't blame them for not overturning it.

    BoulderFish ●

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    gemrich

  • A little OT, but does anyone know if there will be a replay this week?

    sch1989

  • gemrich,

    I really enjoy reading these articles every week. Another, insightful review. Thanks for doing these.

    Two questions. General thoughts on backup DTs? And how are our backers when they have to take on Olinmen? Based on some of your comments, I'm concerned that we might have a big drop off in overall defensive performance next year without Still.

  • 24_LordJeff said...

    gemrich,

    I really enjoy reading these articles every week. Another, insightful review. Thanks for doing these.

    Two questions. General thoughts on backup DTs? And how are our backers when they have to take on Olinmen? Based on some of your comments, I'm concerned that we might have a big drop off in overall defensive performance next year without Still.

    I have high hopes for Jones and think he and Hill will be a formidable combination next year. I also am very interested to see how a couple of the young guys look next year, so I'm in general not overly concerned about the DT situation. Losing a player like Still certainly hurts, and you can't replace his production, but I think we'll be fine.

    And I've been very pleased with the backers this year. Carson has a knack for staying on his feet and slipping blocks. Hodges is obviously in the process of becoming a true stud, and Fortt and Hull have always looked solid to me when they get in the game. I feel very good about next year in regards to the DT/LB play.

    gemrich

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    PSUfaninOnt

  • Good read as always.

    Disagree with you on Sukay's hit though. Why do you want him to try to wrap up a guy who is already going down? A QB with his head down who is already hogtied by a defender = open season on Scheelhaase. Any safety worth a damn is going in for the kill on that hit every single time. It's unfortunate that Scheelhaase had his head down, but that's his own fault for putting himself in a bad spot.

    PureRockFury ●

  • PureRockFury said...

    Good read as always.

    Disagree with you on Sukay's hit though. Why do you want him to try to wrap up a guy who is already going down? A QB with his head down who is already hogtied by a defender = open season on Scheelhaase. Any safety worth a damn is going in for the kill on that hit every single time. It's unfortunate that Scheelhaase had his head down, but that's his own fault for putting himself in a bad spot.

    good question, and I worded it poorly. My point is that if your going to lead with you head I expect to see your arms out. Leading with the helmet is not uncommon at all, obviously, but you shouldn't lead with your helmet with arms into your side. That just looks, and is, dangerous. Basically, I thought he led too high with his head. I don't mind him going in for the kill, just not in the way he did it. But again, no problem with disagreement on the matter, just my opinion.

    gemrich

  • I think gem understands scheelhaase was already going down, and I agree with his point...Sukay led with his helmet. It doesn't matter if he's going down or not, the fact is, that is spearing by definition.

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    white_out ●

  • pdiehm said...

    I think gem understands scheelhaase was already going down, and I agree with his point...Sukay led with his helmet. It doesn't matter if he's going down or not, the fact is, that is spearing by definition.

    He hit him with his shoulder.

    PureRockFury ●

  • I know some posters are not fans of Carson but he is doing exactly what I would want from him, stay at home, make sure tackles, fill up the middle and let the athletes around him (Hodges, Stupar, Mauti before he got hurt etc.) make the plays. He has missed some open field takles but honestly that is one of the hardest skills to teach and many players on most teams have troubles there. As well, sometimes the other guy is just going to make a play.

    I have just recently switched my opinion of Carson, and I completely agree. We have 2 LB's playing risky (and very finely executed) football right now. It's important to have someone that sort of serves as Sweeper for those that follow soccer out there. As much as I am itching to see Fortt play significant minutes, I can easily see why the staff is playing this strategy right now with the LBers.

    ForTheGlory90

  • PureRockFury said...

    He hit him with his shoulder.

    Certainly looked like a helmet shot to me.

    Regardless it's one of the few years that i can remember where it seems every break is going PSU's way.

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    white_out ●

  • Look forward to this article every week, another fine job. Loved the Sukay hit, i looked at it in slo-mo several times and IMO he tucked his shoulder a bit at impact meaning he was leading with his shoulder, and whatever part of the runner you hit is by chance as he was being spun around by the already tackler.
    Also agree on the non PI call on J.Brown, defender ran right into him as he makes his break. Just think Redd was supposed to break to the outside and Felder(?) needs to take his route deeper. Too many recievers in one area created the contact which is why i think we didn't get the call.

    psulions570

  • PureRockFury said...

    He hit him with his shoulder.

    agreed, but he also made contact with his helmet. It the end it doesn't really matter because as many have pointed out, it's a fast moving play. My issue is that he led with his helmet with the clear intent of hitting with his helmet, and I didn't like where he was aiming or how he did it. I think, and I could be wrong, that if the uniforms were switched and it was an Illinois hit, that PSU message boards would have lit up and wouldn't have stopped calling for the official's head. We've tried to rationalize it, but I talked to quite a few non PSU fans (including current and former players) to see what their opinion was, and basically everyone's initial reaction was that it should have been a penalty. These were people with no dog in the fight. Again, it's an opinion, but I thought it was dangerous for both players. Appreciate the discussion though.

    gemrich

  • Why don't they call holding?

    bonovoxpsu

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    danmcc ●

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    PSUfaninOnt

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    gemrich

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    PSUfaninOnt

  • Gem,

    Enjoyable read. We debated in a thread about the hit by Sukay. I'll just say this. The nuances are interesting but frustrating to me.

    The player can lead with a shoulder and deliver a huge shoulder to body hit. That is what I feel, mostly, took place. I also don't think we can assume Sukay's intent. However, if we were to do so...haven't seen him try to wrap a guy up in his career so arms out is not an indicator of clean hit or clean intent to me.

    It was mostly shoulder contact w/ some head contact. Not a penalty by rule.

    Now, was it risky technique - YES - but it led to a fumble that was as much a reason we won as anything else. Bc, while we didn't score, we can't assume they wouldnt have.

    I'd coach Sukay on the play. But ultimately say go play your game.

    jonpsu

  • jonpsu said...

    Gem,

    Enjoyable read. We debated in a thread about the hit by Sukay. I'll just say this. The nuances are interesting but frustrating to me.

    The player can lead with a shoulder and deliver a huge shoulder to body hit. That is what I feel, mostly, took place. I also don't think we can assume Sukay's intent. However, if we were to do so...haven't seen him try to wrap a guy up in his career so arms out is not an indicator of clean hit or clean intent to me.

    It was mostly shoulder contact w/ some head contact. Not a penalty by rule.

    Now, was it risky technique - YES - but it led to a fumble that was as much a reason we won as anything else. Bc, while we didn't score, we can't assume they wouldnt have.

    I'd coach Sukay on the play. But ultimately say go play your game.

    good stuff, hope you saw my apology in that other thread.

    gemrich

  • gemrich said...

    with the clear intent of hitting with his helmet

    You don't know what his intent was.

    Penalizing him for that would be like when Suggs was flagged for "going after Tom Brady's knees" last season (or the season before?) despite the fact that he didn't even touch him. You can't penalize guys for intent, when you literally have no idea what their intent actually was. The NFL is being pussified beyond all recognition, we don't need the college game turning into two hand touch now too.

    PureRockFury ●

  • PureRockFury said...

    You don't know what his intent was.

    Penalizing him for that would be like when Suggs was flagged for "going after Tom Brady's knees" last season (or the season before?) despite the fact that he didn't even touch him. You can't penalize guys for intent, when you literally have no idea what their intent actually was. The NFL is being pussified beyond all recognition, we don't need the college game turning into two hand touch now too.

    I agree that it's a slippery slope. My comment was specific to that play. When someone drops their arms and leads with their helmet in the way he did it's hard to call it anything other than intent to hit with his helmet. We can argue about is overall intent, but I don't think we can argue that he was doing anything other than leading his helmet. Heck, he's putting himself in danger with that kind reckless effort. You can lay a big hit without doing what he did.

    gemrich

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