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Starting QB...

  • LaJollaLion said...

    Why do the same people who were convinced Rob Bolden >>>> MM now try the same line of thinking with Paul Jones who has less game experience? I get people don't like MM the person or QB, but that doesn't make the other guys a better QB. 5-6 of the same folks last year were saying RB gives PSU the best shot to win becuase of his high ceiling...now it's PJ. I guess it's the odds thing and maybe this one will work out that way. Pointing out MM's flaws isn't going to make the other guys better. If they are better they need to show it. I'm not shocked that Fisher went on the record saying right now MM is probably their guy. MM has things you can point out that are very visible weaknesses, but somehow those behind him who can't seem to separate themselves are better? In what world does that logic hold up? We have no idea where PJ is excelling or lacking. Physically it's a no brainer, but for some reason he may not be out there. I would think if he were that close to MM in terms of running the offense it wouldn't even be a hard decision for the staff. The simple fact they are alreadly leaning one way kind of indicates PJ is missing something. What,,,,I'm not sure and it would be a blind guess.

    It's basically I don't like MM so I'll take anyone over him....ok then. People can get pissed all they want to, but I won't be shocked when MM is the starting QB this fall. I also won't be pissed if it is PJ because that means someone at least stepped it up and has taken the job. We're not 100% sure what the offense will look like. We're not sure who really is grasping what they are throwing at them. We aren't sure if any of them can even run this offense, but we know which one "should" be out there. So much so that we have sides in this race. I'm not thrilled about the prosects of our QB play, but for the first time in a long time the defenses won't know exactly what PSU is doing. That should aid which ever QB is out there along with the OL who had DL's calling the plays prior to the snaps in the last few years.

    Go ahead and root for "your guy" I guess since he has yet to play, he must be a step up. It's a fun stance to take, but it is more wishful thinking IMO than anything else. Every PSU fan around HOPES PJ is awesome and is the guy, but some aren't sold on him because he somehow can't beat out the "walkon" 3 years into his college career. I get the academic issues for 2 years, but the time for him to grab the job is here. If he doesn't, next year we can see #team_Hack or #team_Bench start up. Until then root for anyone but #11 I guess...have at it.

    People are rooting for Paul (but don't expect him to be given the job) because McGloin is, by all accounts, an ass. People are not convinced Paul is better now, but suspect he will be better in the (hopefully) near future because he can't be much worse.

    #95 ranked total offense (team)
    #96 ranked passing offense (team)
    #110 ranked scoring offense (team)
    #89 ranked passing efficiency (McGloin) out of 100 ranked kids

    Without the #5 ranked scoring defense (and #20 total defense), McGloin gave us little more chance to win than Bolden and that really says all that needs to be said. Bolden deteriorated to the point he could barely hit a wide open receiver standing still and yet he was still in the mix to start halfway through the season.

    signature image

    “We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill

    psujmc1992 ●

  • psujmc1992 said...

    People are rooting for Paul (but don't expect him to be given the job) because McGloin is, by all accounts, an ass. People are not convinced Paul is better now, but suspect he will be better in the (hopefully) near future because he can't be much worse.

    #95 ranked total offense (team) #96 ranked passing offense (team) #110 ranked scoring offense (team) #89 ranked passing efficiency (McGloin) out of 100 ranked kids

    Without the #5 ranked scoring defense (and #20 total defense), McGloin gave us little more chance to win than Bolden and that really says all that needs to be said. Bolden deteriorated to the point he could barely hit a wide open receiver standing still and yet he was still in the mix to start halfway through the season.

    That offense was run with a different staff who outside of 1-2 years in the last 20 were not really offensive driven. The entire unit gets the nod for those numbers...QB and all. You can post those numbers all day long and it doesn't make PJ a better QB than Bolden or MM at this point in time. Those numbers have absolutely nothing to do with years QB race, nothing at all. If PJ can't beat out MM than that is on him,,,,ass or not. This isn't charity and the nice guy gets to play. Saying MM is bad does not make PJ a better QB. If this staff goes with MM over PJ...what does it tell you? 1 is that it isn't a popularity contest. 2 is that for some reason PJ must not be able to overtake someone who apparently isn't that good.

    Great point about Bolden. How is it Bolden came in during the summer and overtook PJ as a frosh? Doesn't that raise an eyebrow? All the talk inside and outside was how great Bolden could spin the ball and PJ had some work to do. Now all of a sudden that Bolden crashes, you just want to assume PJ is the best horse in this race. You can't bring up numbers all day long, but the bottom line is PJ has NONE to support him starting because he never has beaten anyone out. Maybe he does, but rooting for him because "I don't like the other mean guy" isn't what happens. What is it that all of these coaches are missing when it comes to this QB race? It kinds of makes you wonder how off those that see this kids daily don't get. What are they seeing that we can't...there has to be something else there IMO.

    I'm not against PJ winning the job, but your strawman arguement that he must be better doesn't have much to stand on. Maybe PJ catches up, but I think there is a reason he was behind all 3 at the start and there is a reason why the new staff is already leaning towards MM. The past is the past and the last 2 times the team has won the BT title the defense carried the squad. It's been that way for quite some time, so I'm not sure why that is even brought into the equation. M Rob's BT title run was build around the defense. Hell he scored on a 4th and 1 after Lowry brought the ball down to the 1. They also then needed Hali to force the T Smith fumble to seal it. Clark's 08 team was also won by the defense leading the way. Saying the defense in the past has carried teams is not something new or unique to last years team. Defense carried the team from 05 on.

    I'm optimistic the offense will be better this year regardless of the # under center. As I stated...point out PJ's shoulders carrying this team to a win and his dominant performances...you can't. If he can't beat out the guy is as bad as you state, it says more about his play than it does MM's.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by LaJollaLion on 5/7/2012 at 10:01 AM

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • If MM gives us the best chance to win, then play him.

    If MM gives us the best chance to win, PSU will be very average this year, like the past couple.

    That's how I look at it anyway. Hopefully I'm wrong on the second part, but I doubt it.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • LaJollaLion said...

    That offense was run with a different staff who outside of 1-2 years in the last 20 were not really offensive driven. The entire unit gets the nod for those numbers...QB and all.

    McGloin wasn't sacked that much and didn't throw many INT's, plus he had an above average running game behind him. That's generally a recipe for statistical success. You can blame McGloin's OWN PERSONAL QB rating on the team if you want but most reasonable people realize he earned it on his own. Again, I don't know if Jones will be better but to argue that McGloin is anything other than terrible is crazy talk.

    signature image

    “We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill

    psujmc1992 ●

  • psujmc1992 said...

    McGloin wasn't sacked that much and didn't throw many INT's, plus he had an above average running game behind him. That's generally a recipe for statistical success. You can blame McGloin's OWN PERSONAL QB rating on the team if you want but most reasonable people realize he earned it on his own. Again, I don't know if Jones will be better but to argue that McGloin is anything other than terrible is crazy talk.

    So it's a team game when they win, but when they lose it's his own demise. You can only talk about his losses, but not what he ever did positive. Seems perfectly reasonable and not crazy at all. They were about 8-1 at one point last year and played NEB fairly close. A couple of breaks and they were in the BT title game. I'm not making that up as that was the scenario IIRC. Was it a great PSU team...nope. Was the offense good, nope. Was the QB play good, NOPE. Was he the best option last year...hell yes.

    The only thing I am stating is that MM very well may be the QB. If some don't like it...fine. You have to ask yourself how an entire new staff had him #1 coming out of the spring in spite of his physical limitations. Something else is going on there, but maybe that changes this summer or in the fall. I'm not holding my breath for some superstar QB to come out and carry PSU this year. I'm more hopeful the new staff gives the QB's a better chance to suceed which is more likely than the other guy must be better.

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • Just because some don't like it doesn't mean they have to agree with it or they dont understaand it. I trust the staff (have to really) if they name him #1, I get why. Doesn't mean he won't suck. It also doesn't mean I'll be rooting against Penn State like you seem to think. Imo, McGloin doesn't deserve to do well, but I hope he does.

    MTayl72

  • MTayl72 said...

    Imo, McGloin doesn't deserve to do well, but I hope he does.

    Sorry, but that makes no sense. If he does't deserve to do well than the others who can't beat him out shouldn't deserve to do well either. I graduated HS 20 years ago (seems like where he stopped maturing) so I realize MM has some maturity issues, but grown men not recogonizing that must have been angels at that age. Sorry I wasn't. He walked on, busted his arse, and played for one of the better programs around. I don't care if you don't like a kid or not, but to say he doesn't because you don't like him is a bit over the top. Not liking him has nothing to do with whether or not he should play. It has nothing to do with him deserving to play. This isn't peewee ball. These are young men and some still have to grow up. Some grow up faster than others...football, college, military...etc.

    I can take the same stance with PJ (never would though). He wasn't mature enough to handle his books early on and blew his chance. He doesn't deserve to start as it took him 2+ years to grow up. He hurt his own chances as well as his teammates by not growing up fast enough. Sounds sort of silly when you look at it like that IMO. These young men between 18-22 will grow at their own pace and some may never mature. Feel free to hold something against MM. I really hope he does grow up and becomes a better leader on and off the field. Same as I would for any other kid up there.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by LaJollaLion on 5/7/2012 at 12:10 PM

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • LaJollaLion said...

    Sorry, but that makes no sense. If he does't deserve to do well than the others who can't beat him out shouldn't deserve to do well either. I graduated HS 20 years ago so I realize MM has some maturity issues, but grown men not recogonizing that must have been angels at that age. Sorry I wasn't.

    Wasn't either, still not. But I never badmouthed players to the media, whined to the media, trashed my coach on the sideline, ignored my HC blatantly on the sideline, or got knocked the fuck out for being an all around prick to a guy trying to apologize to me. His starting spot has come from failures to recruit and develop talent, not by his own merit. Maybe he'll grow up, maybe he'll be stuck selling insurance in Scranton, idk. The kid had everything he needed to be a fan favorite, he cost himself everything. No one else.

    I won't root against PSU, but I don't root for a guy like McGloin ever. He is the exact opposite of what I want a QB to be, in all facets. This is from a guy who was more than excited when he took over two seasons ago.

    MTayl72

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    NittanyAlum80

  • The Heel said...

    Facts:

    Matt McGloin was throwing for an average of 117 yards per game the last four games of the season.

    Oh and during those games... ONE TOUCHDOWN, THREE INTERCEPTIONS.

    47 percent completion percentage.

    Fact: The 'He never took a snap before' comment is hilarious. Every quarterback that ever played football had a point in which they 'never took a snap'. Thats may be the funniest argument I have ever heard.

    Opinion: Its simple. We need Paul Jones to be better than Matt McGloin because if Matt McGloin is the best we have... then we are incredibly terrible at qaurterback again.

    Wait, I'm pretty sure that last one is a fact too...

    I want someone better than McGloin too but that doesn't mean we have someone on the roster that fits the bill. All I'm saying is that, from what I've seen from PJ (high school, limited practice action), I'm not convinced he's better than McGloin right now. I suspect O'Brien has a similar viewpoint and that's why I expect to see McGloin behind center against Ohio.

    ams533

  • LaJollaLion said...

    The past is the past and the last 2 times the team has won the BT title the defense carried the squad. It's been that way for quite some time, so I'm not sure why that is even brought into the equation. M Rob's BT title run was build around the defense. Hell he scored on a 4th and 1 after Lowry brought the ball down to the 1. They also then needed Hali to force the T Smith fumble to seal it. Clark's 08 team was also won by the defense leading the way. Saying the defense in the past has carried teams is not something new or unique to last years team. Defense carried the team from 05 on.

    This is not completely correct. You gave two examples where yes, the defense did step up and carry us... but it wasnt the norm either of those years for the defense to have to shoulder the load of winning the game.

    2008 was one of the most successful offenses in the past 15 years in the B1G.

    38.9 points per game and 11th in the country.

    We put up 45 on # 17 Oregon State, 38 on # 21 Illinois, 48 on # 24 Wisonsin, 46 on Michigan and 49 on # 15 Michigan State.

    Thats not really relying on defense.

    2005 we were 13th in the country at 34.4 points per game.

    When you're top 15 in offense in the country your defense is not carrying you, regardless of how good that defense is.

    When we had a capable quarterback, the offense opened up. When we didnt, it got even more vanilla. With McGloin our offense has blown the likes of epic proportions, with one of the best running backs in the B1G and an offensive line, while inconsistant in the running game, let up very few sacks.

    I dont care if it's Paul Jones or Anthony Fera playing QB to be frank... I can not get excited about an offense that is going to be led by Matt McGloin again.

    This post was edited by The Heel on 5/7/2012 at 11:15 PM

    The Heel ●

  • i remeber in my dream that I had about young matt a couple months ago stepping on the field as the starter this up coming season. It will all be reality soon..

    kdog

  • The Heel said...

    This is not completely correct. You gave two examples where yes, the defense did step up and carry us... but it wasnt the norm either of those years for the defense to have to shoulder the load of winning the game.

    2008 was one of the most successful offenses in the past 15 years in the B1G.

    38.9 points per game and 11th in the country.

    We put up 45 on # 17 Oregon State, 38 on # 21 Illinois, 48 on # 24 Wisonsin, 46 on Michigan and 49 on # 15 Michigan State.

    Thats not really relying on defense.

    2005 we were 13th in the country at 34.4 points per game.

    When you're top 15 in offense in the country your defense is not carrying you, regardless of how good that defense is.

    When we had a capable quarterback, the offense opened up. When we didnt, it got even more vanilla. With McGloin our offense has blown the likes of epic proportions, with one of the best running backs in the B1G and an offensive line, while inconsistant in the running game, let up very few sacks.

    I dont care if it's Paul Jones or Anthony Fera playing QB to be frank... I can not get excited about an offense that is going to be led by Matt McGloin again.

    In the big games in those years, the d carried PSU. Both OSU games, nuff said. I don't care if you can't get excited for mm. That is not my problem. It looks like it will be him as of right now. If others can't beat him out, they are lacking something apparently. If you think the staff is trying to lose or something, you're wrong. Maybe it changes, but people need to realize he may be the QB all year. People here act as if the staff is out there taking a poll on who will make the fans the happiest. They will play which ever guy can run their offense the best. MM is smaller and has a weaker arm so why in the world would they be leaning towards him....maybe because he is actually comprehending what they are putting out there at a faster pace. Nahh...it's to piss people off who don't like MM the person or QB. They actually laugh about it daily.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by LaJollaLion on 5/8/2012 at 6:24 AM

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • LaJollaLion said...

    Nahh...it's to piss people off who don't like MM the person or QB. They actually laugh about it daily.

    Actually, that about sums it up. When BO'B calls me daily for personnel advice he comments on how he and the new coaches are laughing it up with the QB decision, he concedes though that LJ and Vandy don't think it is funny to mess with the fans but they are old school. biggrin

    This post was edited by danmcc on 5/8/2012 at 7:10 AM

    danmcc ●

  • LaJollaLion said...

    In the big games in those years, the d carried PSU. Both OSU games, nuff said. I don't care if you can't get excited for mm. That is not my problem. It looks like it will be him as of right now. If others can't beat him out, they are lacking something apparently. If you think the staff is trying to lose or something, you're wrong. Maybe it changes, but people need to realize he may be the QB all year. People here act as if the staff is out there taking a poll on who will make the fans the happiest. They will play which ever guy can run their offense the best. MM is smaller and has a weaker arm so why in the world would they be leaning towards him....maybe because he is actually comprehending what they are putting out there at a faster pace. Nahh...it's to piss people off who don't like MM the person or QB. They actually laugh about it daily.

    Except no one here ever said they wont choose anything but the best. You're twisting peoples words so you can bitch. People are debating whether they feel MM is the best option, he hasnt been named starter yet so we dont know.

    MTayl72

  • MTayl72 said...

    Wasn't either, still not. But I never badmouthed players to the media, whined to the media, trashed my coach on the sideline, ignored my HC blatantly on the sideline, or got knocked the fuck out for being an all around prick to a guy trying to apologize to me. His starting spot has come from failures to recruit and develop talent, not by his own merit. Maybe he'll grow up, maybe he'll be stuck selling insurance in Scranton, idk. The kid had everything he needed to be a fan favorite, he cost himself everything. No one else.

    I won't root against PSU, but I don't root for a guy like McGloin ever. He is the exact opposite of what I want a QB to be, in all facets. This is from a guy who was more than excited when he took over two seasons ago.

    Agree on all accounts.

    You also forgot "attempt to trash talk (jokingly?) with a media personality after a win."

    As you stated, McGloin had it set up PERFECTLY to become a fan favorite. Poor QB coaching and recruiting, walk-on given an opportunity......and he let his personality destroy that time and time again. I would have loved to cheer for a guy like that, until he opened his mouth and behaved the way he has. He should have taken the Tim Tebow root by always just being thankful for having the opportunities he has. Instead, he acts as if PSU is lucky to have him.

    md154 ●

  • ams533 said...

    I want someone better than McGloin too but that doesn't mean we have someone on the roster that fits the bill. All I'm saying is that, from what I've seen from PJ (high school, limited practice action), I'm not convinced he's better than McGloin right now. I suspect O'Brien has a similar viewpoint and that's why I expect to see McGloin behind center against Ohio.

    I wouldn't expect PJ to have the offense down as well as MM yet or maybe even the team's backing yet as much as MM. But let's be real...one is in his 5th year and the other guy is going to start his 3rd with limited PT. So it doesn't surprise me one bit if MM is a little ahead in those.

    But for me.....as long as it's close....by close I mean there are just little differences here or there where good coaching can still work with... then PJ has to have that shot. He's only going to improve by playing....and the intangibles he seems to bring, such as escaping the pocket, running, throwing on the run, etc....have to balance out some areas that maybe MM is a little better at now. Point being, for me....one guy has the potential to have 3 good years still as the guy....while learning the new system. The other guy has 12 games left, while learning the system. Unless MM is head and shoulders better.....i don't see going with him.

    But it won't surprise me if it happens.

    md154 ●

  • MTayl72 said...

    Except no one here ever said they wont choose anything but the best. You're twisting peoples words so you can bitch. People are debating whether they feel MM is the best option, he hasnt been named starter yet so we dont know.

    I'm not twisting anyones words. Fisher came out last week and said MM is in the lead right now. Two other posters I know and respect said that is what they are hearing as well....MM is picking things up better. I get you may not like the guy, but it looks like he will be the starter. What I am saying is that if the others can't beat him out...that is on them. They couldn't have walked into a better situation 3 years ago and again this year and still may not beat him out. I'm not bitching...seems like those that can't handle the fact MM may start have the issue.

    Could you even give one solid reason as to why they would start MM if it were that close? I really can't MTayl and maybe it does change. If it does, great, go PJ or Rob. If not, I hope MM lights it up this year. If you think that is bitching...so be it.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by LaJollaLion on 5/8/2012 at 8:53 AM

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • LaJollaLion said...

    I'm not twisting anyones words. Fisher came out last week and said MM is in the lead right now. Two other posters I know and respect said that is what they are hearing as well....MM is picking things up better. I get you may not like the guy, but it looks like he will be the starter. What I am saying is that if the others can't beat him out...that is on them. They couldn't have walked into a better situation 3 years ago and again this year and still may not beat him out. I'm not bitching...seems like those that can't handle the fact MM may start have the issue.

    Could you even give one solid reason as to why they would start MM if it were that close? I really can't MTayl and maybe it does change. If it does, great, go PJ or Rob. If not, I hope MM lights it up this year. If you think that is bitching...so be it.

    Leading after BOB's first 15 practices and starting the first game are two completely different things, particularly since BOB has gone on the record saying his goal for the spring was to cut the competition from 3 guys to two. Just saying.

    signature image

    “We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill

    psujmc1992 ●

  • psujmc1992 said...

    Leading after BOB's first 15 practices and starting the first game are two completely different things, particularly since BOB has gone on the record saying his goal for the spring was to cut the competition from 3 guys to two. Just saying.

    "Could you even give one solid reason as to why they would start MM if it were that close? I really can't MTayl and maybe it does change. If it does, great, go PJ or Rob. If not, I hope MM lights it up this year. If you think that is bitching...so be it."

    As I said...maybe it does change. It won''t bother me one way or the other. I'm just thinking that MM will be the starter right now. I won't be bothered if he is or isn't out there. Pointing out his flaws has yet to make someone better than him...that is all.

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • LaJollaLion said...

    "Could you even give one solid reason as to why they would start MM if it were that close? I really can't MTayl and maybe it does change. If it does, great, go PJ or Rob. If not, I hope MM lights it up this year. If you think that is bitching...so be it."

    As I said...maybe it does change. It won''t bother me one way or the other. I'm just thinking that MM will be the starter right now. I won't be bothered if he is or isn't out there. Pointing out his flaws has yet to make someone better than him...that is all.

    Hell I have said I think he will start. Pointing out his flaws is what an internet message board is for. We are hoping someone is better than him, if they aren't we aren't going to be that good.

    MTayl72

  • MTayl72 said...

    Hell I have said I think he will start. Pointing out his flaws is what an internet message board is for. We are hoping someone is better than him, if they aren't we aren't going to be that good.

    Disagree. If you think this staff isn't a step up on the offensive side,,,I'll disagree. Regardless of the QB out there, I expect more points on the board this year.

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • LaJollaLion said...

    Disagree. If you think this staff isn't a step up on the offensive side,,,I'll disagree. Regardless of the QB out there, I expect more points on the board this year.

    You are now putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say they are worse than the old staff? There;s a lot more to the statement than just the QB. I have said dozens of times on here, we could have a worse record than last year and be a better team by the end of it. That may not make sense to you, but I am sure you will find a way to say I hate BOB now out of my own personal vendetta.

    MTayl72

  • MTayl72 said...

    You are now putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say they are worse than the old staff? There;s a lot more to the statement than just the QB. I have said dozens of times on here, we could have a worse record than last year and be a better team by the end of it. That may not make sense to you, but I am sure you will find a way to say I hate BOB now out of my own personal vendetta.

    "That may not make sense to you, but I am sure you will find a way to say I hate BOB now out of my own personal vendetta."

    Yeah,,,I'm putting words in your mouth as that is what I'm going to say. You basically want me to buy the fact that the guy who has yet to play is the magical bullet. I'm not sure he is and I don't have personal feelings about these kids. The best QB will play and the offense should be better. At this point in time, it looks like MM. This isn't a high school popularity contest, it's a QB race at a bigtime program. I wish you would stop trying to tell me what I am thinking or stating. You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

    This post was edited by LaJollaLion on 5/8/2012 at 10:10 AM

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • LaJollaLion said...

    "That may not make sense to you, but I am sure you will find a way to say I hate BOB now out of my own personal vendetta."

    Yeah,,,I'm putting words in your mouth as that is what I'm going to say. You basically want me to buy the fact that the guy who has yet to play is the magical bullet. I'm not sure he is and I don't have personal feelings about these kids. The best QB will play and the offense should be better. I wish you would stop trying to tell me what I am thinking or stating. You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

    I don't want you to believe that. I don't think Jones is the answer. I've said I expect McGloin to start. I just don't think he will be very good due to his physical and mental limitations. I have never said the best QB won't and should not play. Ever.

    There's many aspects to this offense other than the QB. There is still a live speed learning curve for the offense. Things don't just snap into place so easily. We could be a better program and team by the end and have a worse record.

    MTayl72

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