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SIAP Framing Paterno...

  • The Heel said...

    That last sentence is an oxymoron.

    I was going to say, there is a slight contradiction in that statement. Well, maybe not so slight.

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    Seltz

  • Theweeble said...

    By all means feel free to fill us in on how you would react if the entire country was lumping you in with a pedophile just because of where you went to school.

    Should I assume by your statement that you'd just shut up and accept it, since that's what you expect us to do?

    The same way all of the murdering SOBs at Virginia Tech and Colorado feel. The same way all the loathesome hate criminals at Rutgers do. Oh wait the national media and closed minded morons haven't labeled those associated with these schools as such. PSU Alums however are obviously not allowed the courtesy to care about their school due to the action/inaction of a handful of people?bs_sign

    Ldandy

  • sneakypete said...

    He is not as guilty as Sandusky. I've said that all along. Bit he is not far behind and neither are the other three.

    Not far behind? loco

    kcpsu

  • Dave273 said...

    Actually that's what the original report said but that was changed in the corrections released a week or two after. The emails were you are referring to had to do with the incident in 2001 not 1998. Joe didn't lie about anything, Freeh made a mistake in the report(shocking I know) and went back and changed it.

    Wait, the emails about "coach wants to know," or whatever other extremely vague sentences were used to "reasonably conclude" that Joe knew all about 98 were actually from 2001?
    Serious question. I know there were corrections to the Freeh report after the fact but not what they specifically we're. There a link for this?

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    RWC5113

  • Do u guys honestly think its possible that paterno didn't know about 1998? Were u not in the same state college pa that I was? that was not at all believable even before the emails. After the emails u are insane to still believe it.

    perfect

  • perfect said...

    Do u guys honestly think its possible that paterno didn't know about 1998? Were u not in the same state college pa that I was? that was not at all believable even before the emails. After the emails u are insane to still believe it.

    You keep saying know about 98. Know what? That there was something weird possibly with JS, sure. He was fully exonerated of wrong doing by a few different fields was he not? Police, psychologist, and what not. So what was known(possibly(or maybe at best)), in 2001 about 1998 was that there was nothing deemed punishable by authorities. So knowing that, in theory, a lack of reaction to a story told by another(a story that has yet to be consistent and was admittedly, but the eyewitness himself, lacking in detail, I might add) is something that could be doubted. It seems those commenting on your response are not defending Joe, but your lack of facts, or anything close to facts as you keep spouting these statements. Siting the emails certainly isnt the way to go, as they are vague and inconclusive in nearly every regard. Something I think many seem to be ignoring is that no one aside from victims and the monster knew for sure that such horrible acts were occurring, until just a couple months ago. Hindsight is indeed influencing much here, and clouding the ability to try and 'put oneself in those shoes AT THAT TIME', if you ask me.

    This post was edited by Seltz on 8/2/2012 at 9:54 PM

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  • perfect said...

    Do u guys honestly think its possible that paterno didn't know about 1998? Were u not in the same state college pa that I was? that was not at all believable even before the emails. After the emails u are insane to still believe it.

    OMG what is wrong with you... your a perfect sheep,

    attachment

    jhouck610

  • jhouck610 said...

    I agree a 100%, 24/7 has alot of Paterno haters on this site.. its sad really, I wish more people would stand up the the media and the bullcrap Freeh report.. Joe did so much for PSU and this state, and to hear penn staters kill him makes me sick... Make me think how many penn staters are really on here, I am ALL IN, but I won't forget our past, or what Joe did for the school... luv ya Joe, I got your back


    shame he didn't have the back of the children....

    FireJayPa

  • Seltz said...

    You keep saying know about 98. Know what? That there was something weird possibly with JS, sure. He was fully exonerated of wrong doing by a few different fields was he not? Police, psychologist, and what not. So what was known(possibly(or maybe at best)), in 2001 about 1998 was that there was nothing deemed punishable by authorities. So knowing that, in theory, a lack of reaction to a story told by another(a story that has yet to be consistent and was admittedly, but the eyewitness himself, lacking in detail, I might add) is something that could be doubted. It seems those commenting on your response are not defending Joe, but your lack of facts, or anything close to facts as you keep spouting these statements. Siting the emails certainly isnt the way to go, as they are vague and inconclusive in nearly every regard. Something I think many seem to be ignoring is that no one aside from victims and the monster knew for sure that such horrible acts were occurring, until just a couple months ago. Hindsight is indeed influencing much here, and clouding the ability to try and 'put oneself in those shoes AT THAT TIME', if you ask me.

    Why did he lie here? He definitely knew more than "never hearing a thing."

    JENKINS: People have speculated that you had knowledge of the 1998 police investigation. You didn't hear any whispers, rumors, reports before Mike McQueary spoke to you in 2002?

    PATERNO: I had never heard a thing.

    perfect

  • perfect said...

    Why did he lie here? He definitely knew more than "never hearing a thing."

    JENKINS: People have speculated that you had knowledge of the 1998 police investigation. You didn't hear any whispers, rumors, reports before Mike McQueary spoke to you in 2002?

    PATERNO: I had never heard a thing.

    Joe lied to someone from the media? Seriously that is shocking lol.

    A non sarcastic seriously here though, I never heard a thing is another truly interpretive response. Seems cut and dry. However, did he never hear a thing that would constitute further suspicion. As hearing about exoneration from wrong doing is what he heard. Meaning he never heard anything like MM reported(whatever that actually was), as he stated earlier in the same interview he had not heard of that type of thing before. She references the 2002 reporting by McQueary in the questioning as well leading to this type of correlation.

    Not to mention this little blurb from Sally Jenkins:

    “It was tough, tricky interview, compromised by his health and monitored by his attorneys, and I certainly didn’t walk away from the interview satisfied,” she said in a Washington Post Web chat.

    As to why would he lie, he could have multiple reasons if he did in fact lie. Im not him and wasnt there, as we got a transcript, where I would prefer full non stop video review personally, though we dont always get what we want of course.

    And no I am not trying to change your or anyone else's opinion, you asked the question I just responded

    This post was edited by Seltz on 8/2/2012 at 10:39 PM

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  • Seltz said...

    Joe lied to someone from the media? Seriously that is shocking lol.

    A non sarcastic seriously here though, I never heard a thing is another truly interpretive response. Seems cut and dry. However, did he never hear a thing that would constitute further suspicion. As hearing about exoneration from wrong doing is what he heard. Meaning he never heard anything like MM reported(whatever that actually was), as he stated earlier in the same interview he had not heard of that type of thing before. She references the 2002 reporting by McQueary in the questioning as well leading to this type of correlation.

    Not to mention this little blurb from Sally Jenkins:

    “It was tough, tricky interview, compromised by his health and monitored by his attorneys, and I certainly didn’t walk away from the interview satisfied,” she said in a Washington Post Web chat.

    As to why would he lie, he could have multiple reasons if he did in fact lie. Im not him and wasnt there, as we got a transcript, where I would prefer full non stop video review personally, though we dont always get what we want of course.

    And no I am not trying to change your or anyone else's opinion, you asked the question I just responded

    We all know it's absolutely impossible for an 80+ year old man on medication to misremember ANYTHING, especially when it was only a short 14 years ago.

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    psubills62

  • psubills62 said...

    We all know it's absolutely impossible for an 80+ year old man on medication to misremember ANYTHING, especially when it was only a short 14 years ago.

    Age should NEVER be used to excuse Joe's actions. He claimed to be healthy enough and sharp enough to continue coaching. And people actually believed it (and that he should coach as long as he wanted). SMH.

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    “We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill

    psujmc1992

  • psujmc1992 said...

    Age should NEVER be used to excuse Joe's actions. He claimed to be healthy enough and sharp enough to continue coaching. And people actually believed it (and that he should coach as long as he wanted). SMH.

    Shake your head somewhere else, because you apparently misunderstood my post. First of all, I'm pretty sure it's Joe's INactions that people criticize, not his actions. Unless you think it was wrong of him to tell his superiors?

    Second, my post was regarding the interview he gave in 2012. Don't know where you got that I was using it to "excuse Joe's actions."

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    psubills62

  • Something I thought was interesting was that Freeh hung on to Paterno saying "You did the right thing, now it's up to me to decide what happens next." First of all, the basic principles in McQueary's testimony ( including dates and times which were off by over a year) changed several times. Why in the world would Freeh hang on to on of the smallest details in that shoddy testimony as one of his reasons for believing Paterno helped cover this up?

    I also find it laughable that Freeh concluded that Joe Paterno closely followed the 1998 investigation based on two e-mails that stated 1) I have briefed the coach, keep us updated. 2) Is there anything new? Coach is anxious to know where we stand.... First off, if Paterno was following it closely, why would Curley have to e-mail Schultz for an update? Knowing Joe, he would have went to Schultz himself before asking Curley to talk to Schultz for him.

    Finally, for those who think Joe perjured himself, you're wrong. The GJ asked "Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?"

    Paterno: "I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it.
    You did mention — I think you said something about a rumor. It may have been discussed in my presence, something else about somebody. I don’t know. I don’t remember, and I could not honestly say I heard a rumor."

    The GJ asked the wrong question here... By law, there was no inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky because he was fully exonerated in 1998. Paterno testified in 2010, so saying that any inappropriate sexual conduct occurred between Sandusky and a young boy would have been false because, according to the court at the time, it was investigated and dropped.

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    Psu2011

  • perfect said...

    Do u guys honestly think its possible that paterno didn't know about 1998? Were u not in the same state college pa that I was? that was not at all believable even before the emails. After the emails u are insane to still believe it.

    The debate isnt if he knew about an incident but what he knew. He knew there was an investigation in which no charges were brought up against Sandusky. Case was investigated and closed. Paterno never lied to the Grand Jury, despite what Pete tells you.

    This post was edited by The Heel on 8/3/2012 at 2:01 AM

    The Heel

  • Psu2011 said...

    Something I thought was interesting was that Freeh hung on to Paterno saying "You did the right thing, now it's up to me to decide what happens next." First of all, the basic principles in McQueary's testimony ( including dates and times which were off by over a year) changed several times. Why in the world would Freeh hang on to on of the smallest details in that shoddy testimony as one of his reasons for believing Paterno helped cover this up?

    Because how the Hell else is he going to blame this all on Paterno?

    The Heel

  • psubills62 said...

    Shake your head somewhere else, because you apparently misunderstood my post. First of all, I'm pretty sure it's Joe's INactions that people criticize, not his actions. Unless you think it was wrong of him to tell his superiors?

    Second, my post was regarding the interview he gave in 2012. Don't know where you got that I was using it to "excuse Joe's actions."

    Did you or did you not use his age as an excuse for mis-remembering not only one of the most disturbing pieces of information he had likely ever heard in his life 14 years earlier but also something he had been questioned about by the grand jury much more recently?

    I understood exactly what you were referring to. He was coaching two months previously and would have been coaching until he died if he hadn't been fired.

    This post was edited by psujmc1992 on 8/3/2012 at 1:05 AM

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  • People should be much more worried about the future instead of dwelling in the past.

    WebSiteMob

  • I just have a tough time with the state gov't and second mile people getting a pass.

    Posas14

  • psujmc1992 said...

    Did you or did you not use his age as an excuse for mis-remembering not only one of the most disturbing pieces of information he had likely ever heard in his life 14 years earlier but also something he had been questioned about by the grand jury much more recently?

    I understood exactly what you were referring to. He was coaching two months previously and would have been coaching until he died if he hadn't been fired.

    One of the most disturbing pieces of information? To hear that Sandusky was under investigation and then that the investigation was closed without charges later? Yeah, I'm sure that was the most disturbing thing Joe had EVER heard. Baloney.

    Considering he specifically said "I don't remember" in both cases...who exactly are you to say he does or doesn't remember?

    Who cares if he was coaching? Everyone knew his health was going downhill fast.

    Fact is, people don't always remember exactly what happened 14 years ago. Obviously in hindsight it seems like a big deal. But Joe dealt with investigations all the time with players getting into trouble. I seriously doubt that an investigation that closed without any charges was "one of the most disturbing pieces of information he had likely ever heard in his life." That's just a bunch of manure.

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    psubills62

  • You guys need to stop protecting Joe. Nobody thinks that alums or fans, or the players or new staffs have anything to do with Sandusky. The plain and simple fact is, the incident occurred and he never even filled in his other coaches. If it wasnt some kind of cover up, whether for football, his legacy, university or just for Sandusky, why was it contained to four people? It was never even internally investigated, and Joe never spoke to Jerry about the incident but let him all access to his football buildings. Once you drop the defense of Paterno, the media and world will see PSU for what it is.....a world class institution, with world class student body and a rabid fanbase eager to get the players back when they take the field no matter who is playing a position!

    Envy the past, Fear the future

    Brannen55

  • Brannen55 said...

    You guys need to stop protecting Joe. Nobody thinks that alums or fans, or the players or new staffs have anything to do with Sandusky. The plain and simple fact is, the incident occurred and he never even filled in his other coaches. If it wasnt some kind of cover up, whether for football, his legacy, university or just for Sandusky, why was it contained to four people? It was never even internally investigated, and Joe never spoke to Jerry about the incident but let him all access to his football buildings. Once you drop the defense of Paterno, the media and world will see PSU for what it is.....a world class institution, with world class student body and a rabid fanbase eager to get the players back when they take the field no matter who is playing a position!

    You have numerous things incorrect in your post, you should do some more research before sounding so sure. But one point I will address if this fallacy of Joe "letting" Jerry have access to his football buildings. I hate to break it to you, but they weren't Joe's buildings. He did not have the deed to them, nor run security at the doors. They belong to the university, and access to them rested well above Joe's scope. Remember, Jerry was no longer a coach. Joe simply did not have any authority over him. To believe otherwise is to buy the propaganda of people who don't know.

    "I believe in what Coach Paterno set forth.”- Garrett Sickels "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation."- Gerald Hodges

    fortheglory94

  • Brannen55 said...

    You guys need to stop protecting Joe. Nobody thinks that alums or fans, or the players or new staffs have anything to do with Sandusky. The plain and simple fact is, the incident occurred and he never even filled in his other coaches. If it wasnt some kind of cover up, whether for football, his legacy, university or just for Sandusky, why was it contained to four people? It was never even internally investigated, and Joe never spoke to Jerry about the incident but let him all access to his football buildings. Once you drop the defense of Paterno, the media and world will see PSU for what it is.....a world class institution, with world class student body and a rabid fanbase eager to get the players back when they take the field no matter who is playing a position!

    You've been relatively sane on these boards, so for now I'll just reply to the bolded and say that we don't need to do anything. And the second sentence is interesting, considering fans of other teams have specifically come onto these boards to say they can't understand how anyone could support Penn State at this point.

    Beyond that...I'd reply, but it's just not worth getting into this stuff all over again in a free thread. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss it.

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    psubills62

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    I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said.

    psu2013

  • jhouck610 said...

    lol, I got some money, I can pay for better.. lol

    I hear ya. The term "Ladies" of the night is used loosely in that area.

    cheers

    getmyjive11