The Lions' Pride

And Texas kills it.

We are a top 15 max program for the next 5 years...after that? Well, could be back in the tip 5-10 all depending on how much of a boss BOB is.

What are you one of those fans who switch their allegience every couple years? Cool dude. What's next your going to be a Notre Dame fan? Learn you highschool football. Penn State is in a very fertile recruiting ground. Also Pennsylvania is rich with high school football tradition and while down in recent years due to the economy still produces a fair share of talent. Def a top 10 job. Has more resources than florida State, a ton of money at their diposal, and the facilities and tradition to back it up. The only problem is the administration at PSU currently wants to de emphasize football.

Hard to believe some of these responses. Not even a question PSU is top tier. Money drives a lot of where these programs stand. Enormous alumni base assures the continuation of funding home and putting people in the seats away. Facilities top of the line. Very strong recruiting grounds. Stadium a big plus. Fans are no joke. Student body among the best in the land. University is beautiful and has notoriety not only nationally but world wide.

Again, shocked how poorly some see their own school

Don't mean to continue the "gang up on Texas Lion" fest, but I think you're underestimating our recruiting grounds.

If you're only assigning PA to Penn State as a recruiting territory, then I don't think you should be assigning Texas to Oklahoma. PSU recruits from many states in the northeast, and we're really the only local top tier school here. Texas has two top in-state programs in addition to all the neighboring Universities that steal from it.

I also am confused by the idea of a "consensus" conference title. We won the conference three times since 1994. Just because the Big Ten is run by a bunch of idiots who give out things such as shared titles doesn't mean we didn't win the conference.

Texas, you're placing far too much emphasis on what has been done recently compared to potential. A Penn State program that is not under devastating sanctions and who has a head coach that is younger than 70 has tremendous potential. There's really nothing we're missing compared to these other programs. And if Texas is "GREAT" as a recruiting ground, then I'd call Ohio great (no caps).

I grew up as a season ticket holder for Oklahoma football games (a long family history at OU). I have been a Penn Stater since 2010, when I made the best decision of my life to enroll at PSU Main.

PA football pales in comparison to Texas. Even as the second or third most popular school in the state, that recruiting position is much more enviable than PSU's. About PA high school football, it's decent, but people here severely overrate it. The WPIAL was where those studs seemed to come from, and that's nowhere near as strong as it used to be. There will always be a great player every year, and around 5-10 players that can play high level BCS ball. Compare that to about 100 from Texas (no research on my part, just a guesstimation). Compare that to about 100 from Florida (no research on my part, just a guesstimation). Florida State has some money themselves, and their location helps them out quite a bit.

This is a RELATIVE list. Yes, PSU is a very very attractive job, but when you look at it compared to CFB's blue-bloods, it isn't as attractive as others.

I agree with this.

With the right guy at the helm, this is a championship-caliber program. Just like at any other top 15 job.

Good point. The whole winning percentage thing is a stupid argument for any program, at least IMO. The most successful programs according to all time wins or percentages typically dominated a period of CFB that was before WW2. Other than "a winning tradition," which is dumb because most kids like to remember watching a team win a natty and not having to look it up on YouTube or read an article from a 1950's newspaper, what does that bring?

Just seems like a silly thing to bring up when trying to say why a program is a great job. Harvard and Yale have great winning percentages historically, but I wouldn't consider them a phenomenal job.

That's kinda my point.

PSU can't build it's teams off of purely home-grown talent. We have to cherry pick what we can from OH, VA, NJ, etc, all states where we are not the top dog. Oklahoma is much more of a player in Texas than we have been in our traditional stomping grounds.

True, Texas has a lot more competitive programs taking from the state. There is more than enough HS talent there to sustain those programs though. There is enough to sustain 4 BCS programs, two highly competitive ones, and 5 D1 programs as a whole, and that's only within the state's borders. Then there is OU, LSU, Bama every once in a while and occasionally Arkansas throws their hat in the ring for top players. Texas has a deep enough talent pool to sustain those programs and keep them at a high level. PA doesn't.

Funny you mention top programs stealing recruits, isn't that what has happened with PSU recently? Pryor, and Spence from PA, and many, many more if you want to include every state that we recruit from. PSU is the only big time program in the northeast, that's true, but a lot of these northeastern kids (at least the big time ones that we should care about) aren't staying up here.

I never said we didn't have enormous amounts of potential, everybody in the top 15 has the potential to start a dynasty under the right coach. However, I think we have more obstacles to overcome than many on that list.

About comparing Texas to Ohio in terms of recruiting, you have to be joking. Ohio is very good, but Texas is top 3 state in the nation without a doubt. You're better than that bills.

That's great, and I don't disagree with you.

I'd still put Texas recruiting above our level of influence in those states. We don't dominate any of them, save Delaware.

The bold part is exactly the issue with your arguments. You're only going off of what has happened recently, which we all know is not representative of what Penn State could and should be doing in recruiting.

I don't understand why you're comparing Texas to PA, when we're arguing PSU vs. Oklahoma. If you should be comparing anything to the state of PA, it should be Oklahoma. That's the home state of Oklahoma University, correct? You don't seem to care that they have to dip into Texas, while we're somehow really weak because we have to dip into VA, NJ, etc.

Besides sanctions (which the list supposedly doesn't consider), what obstacles do we have to overcome? We're easily ahead of OK in terms of money being brought in, bigger stadium, rabid fanbase, etc. The fact that you're nitpicking about TX vs. the entire northeast is foolish. A team only needs 20-25 great recruits every year. You don't think PA/NJ/NY/VA/OH/CT/MA could provide Penn State with 20-25 top recruits every year?

I didn't compare them. I said that if Texas is GREAT, then Ohio is great, particularly noting the lack of caps. Texas is above Ohio for sure, but Ohio is right at the top of that next tier after FL/CA/TX.

Well while we took a break from recruiting, other programs got their foot in the door. Florida has been a consistent presence with top NJ players recently, and they're not going away anytime soon.

Well then the majority of talent from our "homegrown" areas are going elsewhere. We aren't anywhere close to legitimate locking down those states. I don't know if that'd be possible without sanctions TBH, fighting a war on too many fronts if you're having to expand your "home" recruiting grounds that much.

EDIT: also, this states shouldn't be considered "homegrown." That's kind of an oxymoron, having homegrown talent a few states away. Virginia isn't even a neighboring state.

I never said they are locked down. Texas isn't even locked down anymore. Look at all the teams who are feasting on Texas recruits... it's not like Okie and Texas have that thing to themselves. Florida doesn't have Florida to themselves. OSU probably could lock down their state, but Urbs looks like he wants to recruit nationally. Really, today in college football, no school has any area locked down.

Again, you have to look at the way BOB was recruiting before sanctions. That is what we should all expect. Top line talent knocking down the door. And just think, that was for a first year HC who accomplished nothing in that position at that time. I just think you are vastly underrating Penn State.