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One thing that you dont want to see next season?

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Maybe it was 3rd and 2? Or 4th and 1?

    I can check those also pretty easily.... but I'd be willing to bet that on 4th and 1 in our own territory the game script called for a gamble or McGloin fast snapped the ball to run for it.

    3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3 are totally different animals than 3rd and 1 in my opinion. Most good teams should be able to line up on 3rd and 1 and have their offensive line blow the other team off the ball for a yard at least on a QB sneak. McGloin was very good at that.

    On 3rd and 2 or 3, that's arguably one of the BEST SCENARIOS in which to pass the ball--especially play action. On 3rd and short, BOB has his entire playbook available to him--runs and passes and play fakes--and he can truly mix it up on offense to keep defenses guess. And moreover, he can send McGloin to the line with 2 plays--one run, one pass--and McG calls the one based on the defense's pre-snap reads.

    Now, if you want to say that we should run the ball on 3rd and short every time in a game in which we are having great success running the ball and our O-Line is dominating at the point of attack, I agree with you.

    GRS154

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Yes. I would do it until someone stopped me... and then I would run it again. How many negative yardage or no gain plays did Zwinak have last year?

    I don't know.... very few. And that's a valid point. But you can't say it was a problem last year on 3rd and 1. Clearly, the evidence does not support that argument.

    GRS154

  • GRS154 said...

    I agree with that statement more than what Jive is trying to sell me, which incidentally is a load of crap. There were times where I though we threw the ball three straight downs and had to punt, and wished after the fact that we had run the ball on 1st or 2nd in order to set up a manageable 3rd down.

    But even so, look at the numbers:

    McGloin passed the ball 446 times, completing 60.5% of his passes, averaging 7.33 yards per attempt (not yards per completion, but yards per attempt).

    We ran the ball as a team 475 times for a team average of 3.6 yards per attempt (but Zwinak was much better at 4.9 yards per rush).

    So we ran the ball 51.6% of the time. That's very balanced....

    Now if you want to get into specific game situations throughout the year, that's a great discussion to have. But I think we need to go back to reality and what actually happened.

    IMO the numbers aren't telling the whole story.

    Just like everything in life, there is a context to everything. I remember many times this season getting frustrated when we didn't run the ball more often than we did, and IIRC they were usually on shorter yardage situations.

    Nice job with the numbers though, didn't realize that.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • GRS154 said...

    I don't know.... very few. And that's a valid point. But you can't say it was a problem last year on 3rd and 1. Clearly, the evidence does not support that argument.

    I don't know... 3/5 is 60% while 12/13 is 92%. Makes sense... MM is a 60% passer, and I'm sure if you look at rushing plays, 90+% went for at least 1 yard (less sacks).

    I just remember being upset on multiple occassions where I felt that BOB got too cute. We had Zwinak and Zordich in the backfield, and we were getting more than a yard a sneak from MM. I just see no reason to throw. Admittedly though, I am conservative in that aspect.

    This post was edited by getmyjive11 on 1/28/2013 at 3:22 PM

    getmyjive11

  • GRS154 said...

    On 3rd and 2 or 3, that's arguably one of the BEST SCENARIOS in which to pass the ball--especially play action. On 3rd and short, BOB has his entire playbook available to him--runs and passes and play fakes--and he can truly mix it up on offense to keep defenses guess. And moreover, he can send McGloin to the line with 2 plays--one run, one pass--and McG calls the one based on the defense's pre-snap reads.

    Now, if you want to say that we should run the ball on 3rd and short every time in a game in which we are having great success running the ball and our O-Line is dominating at the point of attack, I agree with you.

    The play action pass is only a threat if you've run the ball in short yardage situations before. If the defense knows you don't run on third and a certain yardage, they won't respect the run at all.

    I agree that short yardage situations are good times to pass, and IMO coming to the line with 4 wide (and for us with the luxury of our TEs being fantastic receivers they can go out wide too) is the best thing to do because it spreads the defense and creates running lanes. There'a obviously different philosophies though, so I could understand bringing on the big boys.

    Also, I'm pretty certain it's common for an offense like ours to have options that the QB is responsible for, not just on 3rd down situations.

    However, IMO, it's all based off of the run. If it's not balanced then there's not much of a threat to the defense and they can key in on just one aspect of the play.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • getmyjive11 said...

    I don't know... 3/5 is 60% while 12/13 is 92%. Makes sense... MM is a 60% passer, and I'm sure if you look at rushing plays, 90+% went for at least 1 yard (less sacks).

    I just remember being upset on multiple occassions where I felt that BOB got too cute. We had Zwinak and Zordich in the backfield, and we were getting more than a yard a sneak from MM. I just see no reason to throw. Admittedly though, I am conservative in that aspect.

    I understand what you're saying, but it's not fair to break the 3rd and 1 stats into percentages. The better way to couch those stats is to say that we were unsuccessful only twice passing in our own territory on 3rd and 1, and those were insignificant game situations.

    It's also important to note that a very important 3rd and 1 against #24 NW, McGloin threw to Carter for 19 yards and a big gain. And on one of the two unsuccessful passing attempt, we ran the ball with McGloin for a sneak on 4th and 1 in our own territory and didn't make it--but we were up 31-0 on Iowa.

    In reality, the only unsuccessful 3rd and 1 in our own territory occurred in the First Quarter of the first game of the year while the game was tied 0-0. We went on to lead big at the half and lost the game in the 2nd half for reasons completely unrelated to that call.

    GRS154

  • Texas Lion said...

    The play action pass is only a threat if you've run the ball in short yardage situations before. If the defense knows you don't run on third and a certain yardage, they won't respect the run at all.

    I agree that short yardage situations are good times to pass, and IMO coming to the line with 4 wide (and for us with the luxury of our TEs being fantastic receivers they can go out wide too) is the best thing to do because it spreads the defense and creates running lanes. There'a obviously different philosophies though, so I could understand bringing on the big boys.

    Also, I'm pretty certain it's common for an offense like ours to have options that the QB is responsible for, not just on 3rd down situations.

    However, IMO, it's all based off of the run. If it's not balanced then there's not much of a threat to the defense and they can key in on just one aspect of the play.

    I don't disagree with you, but I'd argue that we definitely had the right balance last year--the vast majority of the time. If anything, I felt like in the biggest game against OSU we were too conservative early in the game.

    GRS154

  • newera.

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    madbrad02

  • getmyjive11 said...

    I don't know... 3/5 is 60% while 12/13 is 92%. Makes sense... MM is a 60% passer, and I'm sure if you look at rushing plays, 90+% went for at least 1 yard (less sacks).

    I just remember being upset on multiple occassions where I felt that BOB got too cute. We had Zwinak and Zordich in the backfield, and we were getting more than a yard a sneak from MM. I just see no reason to throw. Admittedly though, I am conservative in that aspect.

    I'm the same way.

    Very aggressive in schemes and formation, but I like my teams to run the damn ball.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • Texas Lion said...

    I'm the same way.

    Very aggressive in schemes and formation, but I like my teams to run the damn ball.

    I just looked back at 3rd and 2 on our side of the field (I think 4th-and-1 and 3rd-and-3 are not comparable to 3rd-and-1):

    We were 4/4 on 3rd and 2 on our side of the field running the ball.

    We were 4/6 passing the ball in the same scenario. Success against Ohio, ILL, NW (down by 3 in 4Q might I add), and IND (down by 3 in the 2Q). Failed against Ohio State and Purdue: it's here where I think Jive is recalling spots he wished BOB ran the ball more.

    #1 Against Ohio State, 1st Quarter tied 0-0, 3rd and 2 McGloin incomplete after Zwinak ran for 2 yards on 1st down and 6 yards on 2nd down (near midfield). We called a timeout on 4th down where BOB changed his mind and punted rather than going for it near midfield--here's where I thought we could have been more aggressive since against every other team we went for it on 4th down in that position.

    #2 Against Purdue the next week, 2nd Quarter up 10-3, 3rd and 2 on the PSU 36 after the previous play script went like this: McGloin pass to Robinson for 6 yards, ZZ for 7 yards (1st down), McGloin to James for 2 yds, ZZ for 6 yds, McGloin incomplete. Butters then had a terrible punt that Purdue started at the 50 and missed a FGA on that drive. No harm, no fowl, but it came the very next week after the scenario I'm sure Jive is thinking about.

    This post was edited by GRS154 on 1/28/2013 at 4:07 PM

    GRS154

  • Video of Paterno's statue being removed prior to the beginning of every game.

    This post was edited by drken22 on 1/28/2013 at 4:29 PM

    drken22

  • A male twhirler.

    carlisle142

  • 1. Dave Joyner anywhere near my University
    2. Rod Erickson apologizing for Manti Te'O since we once recruited a Samoan
    3. The fu@king blue ribbons on the helmets.

    Pennoyer

  • Red zone inconsistency.

    kjc15600

  • 3 pages and I don't think I saw anyone mention Steve Helwagen. Safe for him to post articles again? Haha sorry, I couldn't resist. Good luck next season guys, and keep proving all the critics wrong. cheers

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    Whiskers

  • Mark Emmert's face.

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    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147

  • An explanation of the sanctions on my TV screen during every FN game.

    signature image signature image signature image

    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147

  • rmj147 said...

    Mark Emmert's face.

    or Emmert as NCAA President

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    pwpitch

  • pwpitch said...

    or Emmert as NCAA President

    +1

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    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147

  • GRS154 said...

    I just looked back at 3rd and 2 on our side of the field (I think 4th-and-1 and 3rd-and-3 are not comparable to 3rd-and-1):

    We were 4/4 on 3rd and 2 on our side of the field running the ball.

    We were 4/6 passing the ball in the same scenario. Success against Ohio, ILL, NW (down by 3 in 4Q might I add), and IND (down by 3 in the 2Q). Failed against Ohio State and Purdue: it's here where I think Jive is recalling spots he wished BOB ran the ball more.

    #1 Against Ohio State, 1st Quarter tied 0-0, 3rd and 2 McGloin incomplete after Zwinak ran for 2 yards on 1st down and 6 yards on 2nd down (near midfield). We called a timeout on 4th down where BOB changed his mind and punted rather than going for it near midfield--here's where I thought we could have been more aggressive since against every other team we went for it on 4th down in that position.

    #2 Against Purdue the next week, 2nd Quarter up 10-3, 3rd and 2 on the PSU 36 after the previous play script went like this: McGloin pass to Robinson for 6 yards, ZZ for 7 yards (1st down), McGloin to James for 2 yds, ZZ for 6 yds, McGloin incomplete. Butters then had a terrible punt that Purdue started at the 50 and missed a FGA on that drive. No harm, no fowl, but it came the very next week after the scenario I'm sure Jive is thinking about.

    Yes, you nailed it. #1 I was yelling at the field with my father and #2 I was barking at the TV, lol. Honestly, 7 of 11 isn't bad. They just stuck in my head for whatever reason. Of course, 16/17 is sublime biggrin.

    getmyjive11

  • White boys in the secondary

    NevadaNittany

  • carlisle142 said...

    A male twhirler.

    I totally agree. I felt so bad for that poor boy. every game he went out there and had to throw his baton in the air and dance around like a ballerina.

    NevadaNittany

  • NevadaNittany said...

    I totally agree. I felt so bad for that poor boy. every game he went out there and had to throw his baton in the air and dance around like a ballerina.

    The kid is a national champ. shrug

    getmyjive11

  • NevadaNittany said...

    I totally agree. I felt so bad for that poor boy. every game he went out there and had to throw his baton in the air and dance around like a ballerina.

    Kid did it voluntarily, so I guess it was on him.

    It was strange though.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • Bob defelcting questions in early December about his upcoming NFL interviews....

    Spulv400