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OT: Joe Flacco's new deal

  • MDAlum said...

    Are you related? When you said P Manning - No, you invalidated the poll response!!!

    As a body of work for 2012, there is no way you can mention Flacco in the same teir as PManning, Brady, Brees, or Rodgers. They are the elite qbs in the league.

    The next tier is where Flacco fits. And that tier is expensive too. It includes EManning/Ben/Rivers/Stafford/Ryan/Romo. After 2013, Luck will fit nicely in there. That's your top 12. He's Tier 2.

    Just my opinion.

    Manning was inept in the Raven game.... he cannot win in the playoffs.... Sorry Flacco is better there. He won the game that meant the most.

    Brady got worked over by Flacco in the title game.... 2 years running!!!

    Brees??? LOL fantasy good... not Flacco!

    Rodgers I think is better.

    Ryan?? ROMO??? RIVERS??????? CRACK KILLS

    Tier 1 A

    Flacco - Rodgers - Ben - Eli Manning

    Tier 1 B

    P Manning - Brady - Brees

    Tier 2

    Ryan Kap Wilson Luck RG3

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    PENN STATE FOREVER

    philafan ●

  • philafan said...

    Manning was inept in the Raven game.... he cannot win in the playoffs.... Sorry Flacco is better there. He won the game that meant the most.

    Brady got worked over by Flacco in the title game.... 2 years running!!!

    Brees??? LOL fantasy good... not Flacco!

    Rodgers I think is better.

    Ryan?? ROMO??? RIVERS??????? CRACK KILLS

    Tier 1 A

    Flacco - Rodgers - Ben - Eli Manning

    Tier 1 B

    P Manning - Brady - Brees

    Tier 2

    Ryan Kap Wilson Luck RG3

    Bingo. Peyton Manning craps the bed in the playoffs. Flacco is just the opposite. I'll take the guy who might not have great stats in the regular season but gets me to the playoffs and then produces big time in the playoffs. Peyton Manning is a choke artist in the playoffs. You can have that fantasy football wonder.

    lion95

  • Flacco had a full team around his efforts. Best team in the league doesn't necessarily mean best qb. Seriously, Trent dilfer and brad Johnson were far from elite when they won games.

    Flacco is good, and had a great playoff run, but I don't think he's anywhere near top five QBs in a QBs league right now. Look at Marino, annually was arguably the best QB for a stretch, but never won the ultimate prize.

    NitLionsGo

  • NitLionsGo said...

    Flacco had a full team around his efforts. Best team in the league doesn't necessarily mean best qb. Seriously, Trent dilfer and brad Johnson were far from elite when they won games.

    Flacco is good, and had a great playoff run, but I don't think he's anywhere near top five QBs in a QBs league right now. Look at Marino, annually was arguably the best QB for a stretch, but never won the ultimate prize.

    you mention 3 different versions of footballl

    Mariano played in a fair true game

    Dilfer and Johnson were the last of the teams winning titles...

    now it is all about the QB

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    philafan ●

  • The $120 million is not important. It's how the contract is structured. These details supposedly won't be revealed until the signing on Monday. So to say he will be the highest paid NFL player is a bit premature this point.

    I'm a Ravens fan. I would not call Flacco elite by any means. To me, elite means performance over a long period of time. But the guy is certainly talented and he's a guy I would want on my team and a guy to build a team around.

    To say he benefited from being around a good team is sort of a "Captain Obvious" remark. Almost every great QB has pretty much benefited from good OLs (Peyton and Brady rarely get hit), good receivers, a strong running game, etc. I know someone will now point out an exception but I think that's a straw argument. Flacco made huge plays when the team needed it the most. He has become more of a clutch player this year.

    Ron Jaworksi, whose opinions I greatly respect, called Flacco one of the two best "throwers" in the league along with Rogers. I generally agree with this. He can go downfield as well as any QB. Those saying Peyton and Brady are better...I'm fine with that. I'd take Flacco over either of those two right now, though, because he's younger and has a brighter future.

    Is Flacco one of the top five QBs in the league? I have no idea. At the beginning of this season I said he was in the 10 to 12 range. He certainly moved up in my book. I really don't care if people feel he is a top five or not (and I'm not sure I even do), but he is a perfect fit for this offense, and his chemistry with Boldin and Torrey Smith is tremendous and he has shown signs that he will have a very bright future with the Ravens. It will be interesting to see how his contract is structured.

    strez ●

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    fanman1

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    strez ●

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    strez ●

  • philafan said...

    you mention 3 different versions of footballl

    Mariano played in a fair true game

    Dilfer and Johnson were the last of the teams winning titles...

    now it is all about the QB

    Look at the two teams who made the superbowl this year...great defenses...

    Tom88

  • Tom88 said...

    Look at the two teams who made the superbowl this year...great defenses...

    hardly...... All about the offense!!!! 30+ a game wins in the playoffs

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    philafan ●

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    fanman1

  • Tom88 said...ed i

    Look at the two teams who made the superbowl this year...great defenses...

    Ravens' defense is far from great. For most of the season they were ranked in the mid-20s for total defense. The D came together and played well in the play-offs, but this is far from the Ravens defense of old. The O carried this team in general.

    This post was edited by strez on 3/2/2013 at 7:07 PM

    strez ●

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    strez ●

  • philafan said...

    you mention 3 different versions of footballl

    Mariano played in a fair true game

    Dilfer and Johnson were the last of the teams winning titles...

    now it is all about the QB

    It's a QBs league now, yes. Joe is good, but not top five in a league that's inundated with competent QBs and pass heavy.

    NitLionsGo

  • NitLionsGo said...
    Cowbo
    It's a QBs league now, yes. Joe is good, but not top five in a league that's inundated with competent QBs and pass heavy.

    Let's see how the pass-heavy teams fared in the league this year. Top three passing teams were the Saints, Lions, and Cowboys.

    It's still about balance in the NFL.

    People also forget that Flacco was a dropped TD pass away from being in the Super Bowl last year as well.

    strez ●

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    fanman1

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    strez ●

  • Also, I think most people who follow the NFL understand this, but $100 million contracts are rarely worth $100 million. They are backloaded with high salaries at the tail end of the contract - salaries that the player will never collect. Since salaries are not guaranteed in the NFL, that contract will be rewritten or the player released well before the high salaries are due (except under unusual circumstances).

    For instance, Eli Manning signed a 7-year, $106.9 million contract in 2009. It included $35 million in guaranteed money. Here is a list of his non-guaranteed salaries by each contract year:

    2009 - $7.5 million
    2010 - $8.5 million
    2011 - $6.5 million
    2012 - $1.75 million
    2013 - $13 million
    2014 - $15.15 million
    2015 - $17 million
    There is a huge jump from 2012 to 2013. The last three years of his contract are going to require some work to get the cap hit down. They restructured his contract already last year and will have to do something about the balloon salaries coming up. Really, Eli's contract was a four or five year agreement with elevated salaries at the end to make it sound impressive. I suspect Flacco will have some of this in his numbers as well (almost all big contracts do).

    This post was edited by strez on 3/2/2013 at 7:47 PM

    strez ●

  • philafan said...

    Manning was inept in the Raven game.... he cannot win in the playoffs.... Sorry Flacco is better there. He won the game that meant the most.

    Brady got worked over by Flacco in the title game.... 2 years running!!!

    Brees??? LOL fantasy good... not Flacco!

    Rodgers I think is better.

    Ryan?? ROMO??? RIVERS??????? CRACK KILLS

    Tier 1 A

    Flacco - Rodgers - Ben - Eli Manning

    Tier 1 B

    P Manning - Brady - Brees

    Tier 2

    Ryan Kap Wilson Luck RG3

    WE'LL JUST HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE ... but your tiering makes me laugh.

    MDAlum

  • strez said...

    Let's see how the pass-heavy teams fared in the league this year. Top three passing teams were the Saints, Lions, and Cowboys.

    It's still about balance in the NFL.

    People also forget that Flacco was a dropped TD pass away from being in the Super Bowl last year as well.

    I actually agree with that, I made the same statement earlier about teams needing balance to win in the league. I was just saying that IMO I don't think Joe Flacco is part of the top five QBs in the league. I still think he's a great QB, but not part of the elites like Rodgers, Brady, Mannings, etc.

    NitLionsGo

  • NitLionsGo said...

    I actually agree with that, I made the same statement earlier about teams needing balance to win in the league. I was just saying that IMO I don't think Joe Flacco is part of the top five QBs in the league. I still think he's a great QB, but not part of the elites like Rodgers, Brady, Mannings, etc.

    Totally agree with you on this. I had him 10-12 at the beginning of the year. Probably 5 to 7 range now.

    But I will add that some of my top five are on the downside and I think Flacco still has a higher ceiling.

    Also, I don't think some people understand that NFL contracts are necessarily top dollars to top players. That's just not always how it works. Given the length of contracts and the volatility of the markets, it's often more about timing.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by strez on 3/2/2013 at 9:48 PM

    strez ●

  • strez said...

    Totally agree with you on this. I had him 10-12 at the beginning of the year. Probably 5 to 7 range now.

    But I will add that some of my top five are on the downside and I think Flacco still has a higher ceiling.

    Also, I don't think some people understand that NFL contracts are necessarily top dollars to top players. That's just not always how it works. Given the length of contracts and the volatility of the markets, it's often more about timing.

    Oh yeah, tommy Kelly is a prime example, the DT from the Oakland raiders. One of the highest paid at his position in history and still hasn't earned half of that on the field.

    If Flacco can follow up this year and be consistent all year long, I think he'll continue his climb into the elites. He just hasn't carried a team consistently enough in my eyes. He actually has a strong enough supporting cast around him to do it too.

    I understand his early playoff success, but the teams he's been on have been built for success for even a mediocre QB to get them in the playoffs. The last two years in the playoffs he's started putting the team on his back, lets see if he can keep building on that before we crown him elite.

    This post was edited by NitLionsGo on 3/2/2013 at 11:49 PM

    NitLionsGo

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