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Hamilton Lion said...
I wouldn't be shocked if in the new collective bargaining agreement - both stashing bad contracts in the AHL (Redden, Souray, Leighton) and using LITR as means to maneuver the salary cap in players that won't play again (Lapierre and possibly Pronger) will be addressed. I'm sure when those rules were brought out, this wasn't part of the intention.
I'm fine putting Pronger or Crosby on LITR for the year because they are injured. However, its chicken shit to put them on LITR for two or three years while their contracts expire. Don't give me they were injured as a reason. The Islanders, not that they were close to the cap, were on the hock for Yashin's contract and it counted toward the cap.
IMO, Schenn is grossly overrated.
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Derock63 said...
So you're saying the Pens should be on the hook for 8+ mil for Crosby if he never plays again? I just don't get how teams should be punished via the salary cap for having players get injured. This wasn't a mistake by the management of the team, just bad luck that a player got injured. It isn't fair to the fans of any team to be have teams be handicapped because of injuries that are serious enough to have careers in jeopardy.
Also, I never spoke to Schenn's ability in my post, but you are very quick to bash him. I don't think he's more than a 3rd liner forward at this point in time. But too many people around the league like him for him not to have some potential. I'd consider him to be a Jordan Staal type player. He's never going to lead the team in points. But he is physical and plays strong defense as well. Again, I'm not claiming he's equal to Staal yet, I just see that as his upside.
Hamilton Lion
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Hamilton Lion said...
Remember, Crosby only has 2012-2013 left on his contract.
It's bullshit in the case of Pronger, if he doesn't play a single game for the next five years after this season, and he is being hidden on the LTIR for the next five years. You shouldn't be allowed to do that. Maybe cap wise, the organization has to take half the cap hit.
Schenn has the potential to be a Jordan Staal type of player. He isn't close to Jordan. Staal is an elite defensive forward in the league and is one of the top five penalty killers in the league without question.
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Derock63 said...
But imagine the case if Crosby was signed for say another 3 years. Do you really think it would be fair for your Pens to have to work with 8.7 million less per year because of an injury that no one could have predicted? I just think it hurts the league as a whole for teams not be able to work at full power due to injuries. It is bad for the fans. Even, as a Flyers fan, I'd hope if Malkin or Crosby had their careers ended early, they'd have the chance to replace them without being punished for an injury.
As for the Schenn/Staal combo. I don't disagree with you and believe Jordan Staal to be one of the best defensive forwards in the league. I'm just bringing up that people mention the same kind of things with Schenn. I'd give Schenn at least two more full seasons before I start writing him off.
Hamilton Lion
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Hamilton Lion said...
OK, lets play the Crosby if resigned thing ... Shero would know the history of Crosby and knows there is a risk involved. I think in this instance, GMs need to be somewhat accountable for signing these types of players that are either fragile or are one hit away from being out of the league entirely. I hope Sid returns healthy and prospers for the Pens, but at the end of the day, you have to sit back as a GM and do some soul searching.
Again, the teams should be on the hook for some percentage ... after all, Holmgren was an idiot for giving Pronger that type of deal that would take him into his 40s at the end, right?
Agree to disagree. GMs have been bailed out for bad investments more and more. It's bad for the league when teams can stash awful contracts in the minors as well. It circumvents the real reason for the rule.
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Hamilton Lion said...
OK, lets play the Crosby if resigned thing ... Shero would know the history of Crosby and knows there is a risk involved. I think in this instance, GMs need to be somewhat accountable for signing these types of players that are either fragile or are one hit away from being out of the league entirely. I hope Sid returns healthy and prospers for the Pens, but at the end of the day, you have to sit back as a GM and do some soul searching.
Again, the teams should be on the hook for some percentage ... after all, Holmgren was an idiot for giving Pronger that type of deal that would take him into his 40s at the end, right?
Agree to disagree. GMs have been bailed out for bad investments more and more. It's bad for the league when teams can stash awful contracts in the minors as well. It circumvents the real reason for the rule.
PENN STATE FOREVER
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Derock63 said...
Well both Laperriere and Pronger are on LTIR and have 35+ contracts so yes you are allowed to do it. I'm not sure if the league has any practices in place to judge the validity of it. For these guys though, they both got hit in the face with slapshots and are now suffering from post concussion related symptoms, so I think it would be hard to say that they are healthy enough to play.
PENN STATE FOREVER
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PureRockFury
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Derock63 said...
I think the biggest thing is that you are looking at things from the perspective of a fan of a rival team who disagrees with what the management of said rival team did. But I am trying to look at it from a league perspective as any change in these rulings would have to come from a new CBA. Why would the league want to have teams be handicapped by these decisions? Yea, they want a competitive field and want the salary cap to limit what you can do. But I also don't think the league wants teams to be handicapped because of injuries of all things. I can get to the whole, be punished for sending a guy to the minors (Redden) but I can't see how it makes sense for injuries.
Also, I'm not saying the possibility of Crosby resigning now, I know that would be a risk. I'm saying a hypothetical that Crosby had signed a contract for an additional 2 or 3 years before (Considering he was only 21 when is ELC ran up, the possibility of being signed for 8 or 9 years wouldn't have been crazy). Would you truly feel the same way if the Pens had to be almost 9 mil under the cap for the next 3 years? What if Crosby had been injured 2 years earlier than he did?
Again, I'm not trying to personally attack you or claim the Flyers are so much better than the Penguins. I just think its tough for the league to make a ruling on this because I know if Crosby had been hurt two years earlier than he did and if his career was over, I doubt the league would want the Pens to still have to be cap responsible for his contract now. This is especially true for teams that haven't been competitive. Can you imagine a bad team who is trying to increase their fan base having to try to be more competitive while being on the hook for millions for players that cannot play for the team?
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Hamilton Lion
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PureRockFury
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Derock63 said...
Well both Laperriere and Pronger are on LTIR and have 35+ contracts so yes you are allowed to do it. I'm not sure if the league has any practices in place to judge the validity of it. For these guys though, they both got hit in the face with slapshots and are now suffering from post concussion related symptoms, so I think it would be hard to say that they are healthy enough to play.
More than just football
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Hamilton Lion said...
In the last three years, which would be a few, Pittsburgh has an 8-7 record against Philadelphia and four of those seven losses are by one goal. So much for owning. You need to go back to school and learn math my friend or do some research before spouting off.
If you want to go back to the last five, Pittsburgh is 23-17 against the Flyers and that includes winning two play-off series, so ...
You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino
tmaluchnik
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Hamilton Lion said...
In the last three years, which would be a few, Pittsburgh has an 8-7 record against Philadelphia and four of those seven losses are by one goal. So much for owning. You need to go back to school and learn math my friend or do some research before spouting off.
If you want to go back to the last five, Pittsburgh is 23-17 against the Flyers and that includes winning two play-off series, so ...
PENN STATE FOREVER
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Hamilton Lion
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Hamilton Lion said...
You have to pay his salary, but right now, if Pittsburgh knew Crosby wasn't coming back this year - it would have tons of money to spend this year on pending UFAs ... the only thing is you really can't afford to resign them. If Philly wanted to, it could go over the cap 4.1 million based on Pronger's LTIR status, right?
PENN STATE FOREVER
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philafan said...
The 2009-10 regular season was the last time the Pens were a better team... we won the Eastern conference that year so by the end of it we were the superior team...
2010-11 we won the division went farther than you in the playoffs and won the season series 4-2
This year we are ahead of you in the standings and 2-1 against you...
That is called me winning this debate.
Hamilton Lion
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Hamilton Lion said...
You have to pay his salary, but right now, if Pittsburgh knew Crosby wasn't coming back this year - it would have tons of money to spend this year on pending UFAs ... the only thing is you really can't afford to resign them. If Philly wanted to, it could go over the cap 4.1 million based on Pronger's LTIR status, right?
PureRockFury
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Hamilton Lion said...
Winning what dude? You have said owned. I proved you dead wrong over the last three years and last five by simple win loss record in head to head battles and that included winning two series against your boys.
You continue to be an idiot when it comes to knowing hockey. The numbers over the last three and five years, which is the last few years which you have maintained Philadelphia has owned Pittsburgh (your words), speak otherwise.
And amazing, I don't see another Flyer fan defending you with this fuzzy math of yours. Only a retard would defend your statement.
PENN STATE FOREVER
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OT: Flyers fans what are you hearing about JVR?