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NitsAndNats ●
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Lion_in_CBus ●
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Lion_in_CBus said...
I have to agree, a lot of it was due to money (or lack of willingness to spend it) and or horrible scouting. I never got why the previous regimes wanted high school pitchers with low-ceilings in the first round. Or like JVB and Johnstone drafted college position players with limited pitching experience to move rotation. IIRC correctly, Cutch was considered a "money-saving pick," I am glad it worked out.
Hamilton Lion
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MTayl72 ●
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Lion_in_CBus ●
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Kinnetaw said...
I know Phillies fans are quick to put us down, and I'm not saying the Pirates are a lock to win the W.S., but my point is that things are really shaping up for them to start winning. If they ever are going to break free of the curse of Barry, this looks like the year.
Lion_in_CBus ●
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Kinnetaw said...
As a diehard, I tell myself that every year with high hopes in April. That usually falls apart in about May. Last year they managed to stay competitive all the way past the All-Star break, which was a pleasant surprise.
This year actually is different. Every team in the NL Central got weaker or at best stayed the same as the pirates only improved. This time last year players that other NL Central teams had included... Astros- Hunter Pence Brewers- Prince Fielder Cardinals- Albert Pujols Reds- lost Ryan Madson for season due to injury
...all gone from the NL Central now, the only team that didn't get worse were the Cubs- and I'll take our chances against the them... it's the Cubs after all.
The Pirates got AJ Burnett, Erik Bedard, Rod Barajas, Casey McGehee, and Nate McLouth and retained McCutcheon & Hanrahan. Say what you want about those players but you can't argue the Pirates got worse.
I know Phillies fans are quick to put us down, and I'm not saying the Pirates are a lock to win the W.S., but my point is that things are really shaping up for them to start winning. If they ever are going to break free of the curse of Barry, this looks like the year.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Hamilton Lion on 3/31/2012 at 7:19 PM
Hamilton Lion
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Hamilton Lion said...
I'm a diehard and I'm not seeing it in your last graph. There are very few long term talented answers in Pittsburgh. We don't have long term solutions at C, 1B, SS, 3B and at least one OF spot. Presley could be; Marte is shaping up to be.
We have nothing in the starting rotation. Hanrahan will be long gone as a closer when this team starts winning. You have to hope Cole, Taillon, JVR, Heredia start to filter up into the rotation the next two or three years. McDonald, Correia, Morton, Karstens aren't good. Burnett and Bedard are bandaids - much like Barajas, Barmes, McGehee, Jones on offense are.
St. Louis can bring in a major league bonafide bat or pitcher because that is a great organization and the fan base is there supporting it. Cincinnati will lose Votto in the coming years, but that organization does well with developing its farm system. Chicago is garbage now, but they will build it the right way. Millwaukee - if they can keep Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, Braun, Hart - they have some prospects who are pretty good ready to move up.
Burnett, when healthy, will be an upgrade off the bat; Barmes is better than Cedeno; Barajas is better than Snyder or whatever was last year; Bedard, when healthy is an upgrade. McLouth isn't. I expect a bit better, but this team still isn't a .500 team IMO.
The Nuttings are arguably the worst owners in professional sports today. They don't care about putting a winning franchise on the field. NH has the creativity of a 10-year old when it comes time for acquisitions. Burnett surprised me though. I didn't think he had it in him.
Charlie Mike.
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Hamilton Lion said...
The problem ... Pittsburgh tried to be the next Atlanta - trying to form that foursome of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and Avery. They went after arms and arms and more arms - basically ignoring bats. They continue to go the arm route.
There are very few hitters in the minors that could make impact. They once again are hinging their hopes on arms.
I find it interesting though. For years, Pittsburgh would go the cheap route in the draft - single Sanchez over whoever was truly the best pick that year ... same with Moskos (Littlefield's most idiotic first rounder ever). Now, they are spending money out the wazzu, but bringing in substandard, over the hill free agents like Barajas, Barmes ... et al.
They are hinging their hopes not only on arms, but the biggest crap shoot of all - the draft.
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Kinnetaw said...
Oh there's no doubt the Nutting's are the worst owners in the league. And there really aren't any long term solutions beyond McCutcheon or Presley. But this season is definitely looking better already before it's even started which is something I've never been able to say. But I agree that any success will be short lived... basically their first season above 500 team will most likely be a one hit wonder.
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thegenerel said...
McCutchen! No 'o' in his last name.
The Pirates should not be criticized for their drafting strategy the last 4ish years.
08 Pedro - no brainer, who knows now. Mercer, D'arnaud, and most of all Robbie Grossman came out of this draft.
09 Sanchez - easily signed, was supposed to be close the the majors w/ his defense. his low price tag allowed them to sign over slot HS arms like ZVR and Cain
10 Taillon - no brainer, Allie is a long term project. Heredia was a big signing.
11 Cole - wish Rendon stayed healthy but he and Taillon form the best pair of pitching prospects in baseball.SP and OF are areas of strength in the system. Im excited about Marte and Grossman seems to be a bonafide Top 100 prospect. Cutch, Tabata, Presley, Marte, and Grossman is a nice stable.
pennstate2012 ●
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thegenerel said...
its the only way for small market teams to build. by scouting and drafting well. Rays, Twins, A's, etc all build through the draft. what other route is there? they cannot compete by chasing FA's.
Moskos was not Littlefield's worst pick (who could actually be a good RP). Brian Bullington is far and away his worst pick, heck one of the worst 1st picks ever. I remember it clear as day, I was waiting for the school bus back in HS reading LIttlefield's quote "he could be a good #3 pitcher"...for the 1st overall pick.
Im not sure what type of FA you expect them to bring in when no one wants to play here. How are they supposed to assemble talent? They invested heavily in the draft with the goal to stockpile the minors with pitching talent and the belief is that an asset is an asset.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Hamilton Lion on 3/31/2012 at 7:22 PM
Hamilton Lion
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thegenerel said...
McCutchen! No 'o' in his last name.
The Pirates should not be criticized for their drafting strategy the last 4ish years.
08 Pedro - no brainer, who knows now. Mercer, D'arnaud, and most of all Robbie Grossman came out of this draft. 09 Sanchez - easily signed, was supposed to be close the the majors w/ his defense. his low price tag allowed them to sign over slot HS arms like ZVR and Cain 10 Taillon - no brainer, Allie is a long term project. Heredia was a big signing. 11 Cole - wish Rendon stayed healthy but he and Taillon form the best pair of pitching prospects in baseball.
SP and OF are areas of strength in the system. Im excited about Marte and Grossman seems to be a bonafide Top 100 prospect. Cutch, Tabata, Presley, Marte, and Grossman is a nice stable.
Hamilton Lion
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Hamilton Lion said...
Pittsburgh first rounders typically turn into busts. Since 1994, the Pirates have drafted Mark Farris; Chad Hermansen; Kris Benson, JJ Davis, Clinton Johnson, Bobby Bradley, Sean Burnett, Bryan Bullington, Paul Maholm; Neil Walker; Andrew McCutchen; Brad Lincoln; Dan Moskos; Pedro; Tony Sanchez; Jameson Taillon and Gerrit Cole. That isn't good success whatsoever. The only good ones are McCutchen and Walker. Benson sucked; so did Maholm; Bradley/Burnett/JVB and Bullington were bums or injured. There hopefully is hope for Taillon and Cole. I will give Alvarez one more year before I put him on the bust line, which he is treading towards right now.
I'm not sure a single franchise has had worse production out of their first rounders than Pittsburgh. I believe the last good first round pick before Drew and Neil was back in the early 1990s with Jason Kendall.
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Lion_in_CBus ●
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My Pirates are gonna win the NL Central this year!!!