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Joyner to remain AD through the remainder of Erickson's term...

  • TheBleedingLion said...

    I'm not sure what you claim to be "well documented" is actually well documented. There are some insiders from various sights who are all relatively consistent in saying Dave Joyner is a current problem....whether he knows it or not.

    I am no insider but its pretty well known that while Dave Joyner was the main face of the hiring of Bill O'Brien, he was hardly acting alone...and Washington and Sandersen are mainly Tim Curley hires.

    Let's not forget that Tim Curley made Sandersen the highest paid wrestling coach in the country and was able to sell him on the 4+ million dollar Lorenzo center constructed in 2006 which was a significant sign of Penn State's commitment to wrestling. Lets also not forget that PA is a hotbed for wrestling and our athletic department resources make Iowa State look foolish.

    Problem with what, though? I have no real issue or opinion on Joyner, I just dont understand how he fell out of favor so quickly, or what he messed up?

    Here were Joyners credentials on this forum just one year ago, and widely celebrated as the interim choice:

    Dave Joyner is the epitome of what success with honor is all about.

    Dave knows at least four things well:

    1. Football (all american at PSU).
    2. Wrestling (NCAA wrestling finalist at PSU)
    3. Medicine - and in particular orthopedics and sports medicine (Hershey Medical School and orthopedic surgeon as well as physician for the US Olympic Team).
    4. Penn State (PSU grad, academic all-american, and long time resident of State College).

    Dave led the search for a new wrestling coach and we got Cael Sanderson.

    Spulv400

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Realistically, what qualified person is going to take a 1 year interim job? And what would they accomplish in a year (where they would likely have zero power)? It just doesn't make sense at all.

    Anyone within the athletic department wouldve took a 1 year head intermin AD job. To think otherwise is naive, IMO.

    You take the head AD job of a huge university for a year, put in on your resume, and look good for taking over during a volatile situation and handling it almost assuredly better than Joyner has.

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • getmyjive11 said...

    It doesn't because there is virtually no benefit to being a lame duck AD if you are already an assistant AD. It's like when a coordinator handles the HC duties for a bowl game when the former HC left for another gig. Rarely does that turn into a permanent HC job (or sets them up for one down the road).

    But, let's be logical about this. 99.9% of the public has not heard about the BOB/Joyner rumor. What message would it send to get rid of your interim AD just bring in another interim AD? It just doesn't make sense at all. It's not going to happen.

    This argument still doesnt make sense to me at all.

    I guess I will use the old line, we will strongly agree to just strongly disagree.

    Once again, I will ask anyone, what makes Joyner qualified to be the AD of PSU? No one has given me an answer. And once again, I will say, ask anyone within the athletic department if they were asked to takeover, would they have? I am sure the motivated ones and the ones that care about this university wouldve said yes.

    Look at it this way, if I am asked to take a leadership role in my organization, am I going to say yes or no?

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • Spulv400 said...

    Problem with what, though? I have no real issue or opinion on Joyner, I just dont understand how he fell out of favor so quickly, or what he messed up?

    Here were Joyners credentials on this forum just one year ago, and widely celebrated as the interim choice:

    Dave Joyner is the epitome of what success with honor is all about.

    Dave knows at least four things well:

    1. Football (all american at PSU). 2. Wrestling (NCAA wrestling finalist at PSU) 3. Medicine - and in particular orthopedics and sports medicine (Hershey Medical School and orthopedic surgeon as well as physician for the US Olympic Team). 4. Penn State (PSU grad, academic all-american, and long time resident of State College).

    Dave led the search for a new wrestling coach and we got Cael Sanderson.

    Tim Curley got Cael Sanderson, not Dave Joyner. He was prob. on the search committee with Ira Lubert, but since you are giving full credit to Joyner for hiring OB, then how are you going to flip it around and give credit of the Sanderson hire to Dave Joyner instead of Tim?

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • tmaluchnik said...

    Tim Curley got Cael Sanderson, not Dave Joyner. He was prob. on the search committee with Ira Lubert, but since you are giving full credit to Joyner for hiring OB, then how are you going to flip it around and give credit of the Sanderson hire to Dave Joyner instead of Tim?

    Tim Curley gets credit for the Troy Sunderland hire. Ira Lupert a big contributor and his friend Dave Joymer were upset with the sad state of the PSU wrestling program under Sunderland and pushed Curley to get a good coach. It has been written that Lupert contributed to Sanderson's salary to lure him to state college.

    FlaLion

  • Spulv400 said...

    Problem with what, though? I have no real issue or opinion on Joyner, I just dont understand how he fell out of favor so quickly, or what he messed up?

    Here were Joyners credentials on this forum just one year ago, and widely celebrated as the interim choice:

    Dave Joyner is the epitome of what success with honor is all about.

    Dave knows at least four things well:

    1. Football (all american at PSU).
    2. Wrestling (NCAA wrestling finalist at PSU)
    3. Medicine - and in particular orthopedics and sports medicine (Hershey Medical School and orthopedic surgeon as well as physician for the US Olympic Team).
    4. Penn State (PSU grad, academic all-american, and long time resident of State College).

    Dave led the search for a new wrestling coach and we got Cael Sanderson.

    You forgot a couple
    Buisness man - a complete slime bucket
    Personality - a complete asshole
    Communicatin skills - non existent
    Ego - thinks his shit does not smell
    Doing it the psu way - he does not even know what that means

    Trock56

  • tmaluchnik said...

    This argument still doesnt make sense to me at all.

    I guess I will use the old line, we will strongly agree to just strongly disagree.

    Once again, I will ask anyone, what makes Joyner qualified to be the AD of PSU? No one has given me an answer. And once again, I will say, ask anyone within the athletic department if they were asked to takeover, would they have? I am sure the motivated ones and the ones that care about this university wouldve said yes.

    Look at it this way, if I am asked to take a leadership role in my organization, am I going to say yes or no?

    I'm not saying he is qualified or even adequate. What I am saying is that no organization will replace an interim employee with another interim employee unless there is a documented, public reason to do so.

    getmyjive11

  • fortheglory94 said...

    You'd be hard pressed to find the documentation you are referring to. Ira Lubert is the overwhelmingly main reason Cael is here, that is far more documented than Joyner. I guess you could say that Joyner was at least involved. You know, he sat in on the meetings at Ira's SC house. The one where Joyner is a boarder since he is a bankrupt, failed surgeon. If those aren't qualifications to run one of the biggest AD's in the country, I don't know what is.

    The bottom line is that even if you don't believe the rumors that multiple coaches at PSU dislike him, he is in no way qualified to hold the position he was handed. But when you are asked to be Judas and fulfill your task, you are rewarded in certain ways. I'd like to think he had trouble sleeping last night for his role on November 9, 2011, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

    Cael Sanderson is the reason Cael is here - not Lubert or Joyner. The search committee (i.e. Luber and Joyner) had pretty much settled on Rob Koll when Sanderson picked up the phone and called Curley to tell him he'd be interested in the job. That's how he got hired not through any search that Lubert or Joyner did.

    UncleLar

  • FlaLion said...

    Tim Curley gets credit for the Troy Sunderland hire. Ira Lupert a big contributor and his friend Dave Joymer were upset with the sad state of the PSU wrestling program under Sunderland and pushed Curley to get a good coach. It has been written that Lupert contributed to Sanderson's salary to lure him to state college.

    For the record, it is against NCAA rules for a booster to contribute to a coach's salary. So, despite rumors to the contrary, it's not likely that Lubert is paying Cael's salary.

    That rule is also one of the reasons that the rumor about Pegula supposedly chipping in money for O'Brien should have immediately been flagged as BS.

    This post was edited by UncleLar on 1/23/2013 at 1:26 PM

    UncleLar

  • FlaLion said...

    Tim Curley gets credit for the Troy Sunderland hire. Ira Lupert a big contributor and his friend Dave Joymer were upset with the sad state of the PSU wrestling program under Sunderland and pushed Curley to get a good coach. It has been written that Lupert contributed to Sanderson's salary to lure him to state college.

    geez..."sad state of psu wrestling" is quite a statement. I think the phrase "topped out" or maybe "had a limited ceiling" may fit a little better there. Sunderland put penn state wrestling back on the map and deserves a lot of credit...his problem was he couldnt quite get over the hump.

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/sunderland_troy00.html

    TheBleedingLion

  • Trock56 said...

    You forgot a couple Buisness man - a complete slime bucket Personality - a complete asshole Communicatin skills - non existent Ego - thinks his shit does not smell Doing it the psu way - he does not even know what that means

    those werent my words....they were a repost from the celebration on this board last year when he was named interim AD :)

    Spulv400

  • UncleLar said...

    Cael Sanderson is the reason Cael is here - not Lubert or Joyner. The search committee (i.e. Luber and Joyner) had pretty much settled on Rob Koll when Sanderson picked up the phone and called Curley to tell him he'd be interested in the job. That's how he got hired not through any search that Lubert or Joyner did.

    There are others who would beg to differ with you. Regardless of the order of things, Lubert was clearly instrumental in the hiring. To dispute that is crazy. As for Koll, he was never going to coach here because he has absolutely no interest in leaving Cornell. This was not a secret.

    "I believe in what Coach Paterno set forth.”- Garrett Sickels "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation."- Gerald Hodges

    fortheglory94

  • TheBleedingLion said...

    geez..."sad state of psu wrestling" is quite a statement. I think the phrase "topped out" or maybe "had a limited ceiling" may fit a little better there. Sunderland put penn state wrestling back on the map and deserves a lot of credit...his problem was he couldnt quite get over the hump.

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/sunderland_troy00.html

    I would disagree about Sunderland putting the program back on the map. The Fritz years, while a downgrade from Lorenzo, still were more successful than Troy. I believe that a change was best for all involved at the time.

    "I believe in what Coach Paterno set forth.”- Garrett Sickels "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation."- Gerald Hodges

    fortheglory94

  • fortheglory94 said...

    There are others who would beg to differ with you. Regardless of the order of things, Lubert was clearly instrumental in the hiring. To dispute that is crazy. As for Koll, he was never going to coach here because he has absolutely no interest in leaving Cornell. This was not a secret.

    Koll was engaged in talks with PSU at the time that Sanderson made the call (this was a secret). My bet is that he would have taken the job. Tim Curley had the biggest impact on Sanderson's hire because he was able to negotiate an adjustment to the University's Nike contract that allowed Sanderson to keep his deal with Asiics. Without that Nike contract change, Sanderson stays in Ames.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by UncleLar on 1/23/2013 at 1:38 PM

    UncleLar

  • TheBleedingLion said...

    geez..."sad state of psu wrestling" is quite a statement. I think the phrase "topped out" or maybe "had a limited ceiling" may fit a little better there. Sunderland put penn state wrestling back on the map and deserves a lot of credit...his problem was he couldnt quite get over the hump.

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/sunderland_troy00.html

    Here are the results from Sunderlands last year at PSU. It speaks for itself. And Sunderland was and probably still is coaching at a high school after leaving PSU.

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/archive/psu-m-wrestl-sched-2008.html

    FlaLion

  • A little off topic but I have not heard a word about Mark Sherburne since he got fired for something he apparently was hiding, etc.....

    Is there or has there been any more to that story? Remember he was IAD as soon as Curley got placed on leave.

    PSUDOG

  • getmyjive11 said...

    I'm not saying he is qualified or even adequate. What I am saying is that no organization will replace an interim employee with another interim employee unless there is a documented, public reason to do so.

    My point is, Joyner shouldve never been hired in the 1st place. They made a mistake, and any sane organization would quickly fix that mistake, even if you believe "it doesnt look good" to the outside that we hired another interim for a completely unqualified interim. Unfortunately PSU is ran by insane people.

    You dont just let an unqualified person stay in a position of such power. If something is wrong, you fix it as best as you can now, you dont wait for years. If PSU was actually in industry instead of academics, stockholders would be going nuts. Also unfortunate is that our "largest dues paying alumni association" has been nowhere to be found since Nov. 2011, and not just in this case.

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • FlaLion said...

    Here are the results from Sunderlands last year at PSU. It speaks for itself. And Sunderland was and probably still is coaching at a high school after leaving PSU.

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/archive/psu-m-wrestl-sched-2008.html

    i'm aware, just pointing out that one bad year isnt exactly worthy of putting the program in the catagory of a "sad state"

    TheBleedingLion

  • UncleLar said...

    For the record, it is against NCAA rules for a booster to contribute to a coach's salary. So, despite rumors to the contrary, it's not likely that Lubert is paying Cael's salary.

    That rule is also one of the reasons that the rumor about Pegula supposedly chipping in money for O'Brien should have immediately been flagged as BS.

    That is true. But wealthy boosters may contribute money to the Athletic Department (see Oregon, Oklahoma State) which frees up money to increase coaches salaries. Where there is a will, there is a way.

    FlaLion

  • UncleLar said...

    So you think O'Brien was lying through his teeth when he called the press conference to say he gets along just fine with Joyner. I'm curious as to exactly what it would take for you to believe that the rumors were all wrong. Denials by all the parties involved, along with a vote of confidence in Joyner from the administration, apparently mean nothing to you. So what would?

    So you think O'Brien would call a press conference to slam his athletic director? Do you think the parties involved were going to be telling media they cant stand working with eachother? A "vote of confidence from the administration?" Is that a joke? I have ZERO confidence in this administration so their little "vote of confidence" means jack to me.

    So yes, none of that stuff means anything to me. If I am having problems with a co-worker, manager, boss, etc..and I was talking with outside people, I would put up a show too, otherwise it makes your organization look dysfunctional and word spreads. I would probably share it with close people on the outside, but I wouldnt go to the bar and just share it with Joe Schmo who then goes on and tells so and so and then so and so goes on and tells one of my clients.

    The old cliche, where there is smoke, there is fire. If OB was perfectly fine with the way things were, he wouldnt of pulled the power play that he pulled. Of course he is not going to come out on a press conference televised everywhere and air the dirty backroom politic laundry. To think otherwise is not grasping reality.

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • tmaluchnik said...

    My point is, Joyner shouldve never been hired in the 1st place. They made a mistake, and any sane organization would quickly fix that mistake, even if you believe "it doesnt look good" to the outside that we hired another interim for a completely unqualified interim. Unfortunately PSU is ran by insane people.

    You dont just let an unqualified person stay in a position of such power. If something is wrong, you fix it as best as you can now, you dont wait for years. If PSU was actually in industry instead of academics, stockholders would be going nuts. Also unfortunate is that our "largest dues paying alumni association" has been nowhere to be found since Nov. 2011, and not just in this case.

    I understand, but realistically, he hasn't done anything in the public's view that would warrant his dismissal. His only noteworthy public action is hiring Bill O'Brien. You just have to think of him as a temp that will not be around in a year and a half.

    This post was edited by getmyjive11 on 1/23/2013 at 3:33 PM

    getmyjive11

  • UncleLar said...

    For the record, it is against NCAA rules for a booster to contribute to a coach's salary. So, despite rumors to the contrary, it's not likely that Lubert is paying Cael's salary.

    That rule is also one of the reasons that the rumor about Pegula supposedly chipping in money for O'Brien should have immediately been flagged as BS.

    However, I don't believe it is against NCAA rules for a booster to endow money to a coaching position. I don't know what benefits they get, but I assume it comes back to the coach in some manner.

    This year, the official title for Stanford's OC Pep Hamilton was the "Andrew Luck Director of Offense" (this was the first year, it was endowed by an anonymous donor in the name of Andrew Luck) and Shaw's official title is the "Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football."

    Stanford football coaching position renamed for Andrew Luck | SI Tracking Blog – Tracking MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, and NCAA On Twitter

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    Lion_in_CBus ●

  • tmaluchnik said...

    So you think O'Brien would call a press conference to slam his athletic director? Do you think the parties involved were going to be telling media they cant stand working with eachother? A "vote of confidence from the administration?" Is that a joke? I have ZERO confidence in this administration so their little "vote of confidence" means jack to me.

    So yes, none of that stuff means anything to me. If I am having problems with a co-worker, manager, boss, etc..and I was talking with outside people, I would put up a show too, otherwise it makes your organization look dysfunctional and word spreads. I would probably share it with close people on the outside, but I wouldnt go to the bar and just share it with Joe Schmo who then goes on and tells so and so and then so and so goes on and tells one of my clients.

    The old cliche, where there is smoke, there is fire. If OB was perfectly fine with the way things were, he wouldnt of pulled the power play that he pulled. Of course he is not going to come out on a press conference televised everywhere and air the dirty backroom politic laundry. To think otherwise is not grasping reality.

    The internet rumor mill was that O'Brien was unhappy with Joyner and pulled a power play that was going to get Joyner replaced. Regardless of what was or wasn't said at the press conference, Joyner was not replaced. Clearly, the rumor was wrong.

    But for some reason, some people can't accept that. So now they turn it into a different rumor suggesting that this is all going to spite O'Brien.

    UncleLar

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