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"IF" True (I don't trust the media) No More Fly-Overs

  • NittanyBill said...

    History is replete with lost and over run peoples who shared many of your short-sighted views on outside threats. I for one sleep better at night knowing we have the best.

    As a person who has participated in multiple flyovers, I can tell you for certain that these can be treated like any other training event. Squadrons have an annual flight hours budget and it doesn't matter what day you fly. We often did other training on our way too/from the flyover sight.

    A flyover is training in itself. Arriving at an event precisely at the end of the National Anthem is no different from having to have your jet at point x at an exact time to drop bombs or laze a target in a war time situation. Well, except for the being shot at part! And of course they make us fly slower than they used to.

    Back to point of this thread. The media article is yet another media fear-mongering piece designed to stir up support to stop the sequester.

    Thanks for your service!

    LBU59 ●

  • spud358 said...

    What is done with those hours is most important and given the choice between dedicated combat or recon training vs a fly over during a budget crisis, I'll take the former. I think it might be intellectually dishonest to say for sure that experienced pilots are getting equal training in both instances. My cousin is a new F-18 pilot off the USS GW, I'd be curious to hear his take on that specific question. BTW, check out this sweet shot of him... words can't describe how jealous I am!

    Read my post above. You are incorrect.

    We often did air-refueling, practice approaches and landings, low level training, etc. in conjunction with a flyover. All legit training that we did on all of our training missions.

    And if you understand federal government accounting, flight training hours are no different than the fiscal budgets. You have to use up every hour just like every government agency has to spend every dime in their budget or they lose funds. The waste is sickening.

    NittanyBill

  • NittanyBill said...

    Read my post above. You are incorrect.

    We often did air-refueling, practice approaches and landings, low level training, etc. in conjunction with a flyover. All legit training that we did on all of our training missions.

    And if you understand federal government accounting, flight training hours are no different than the fiscal budgets. You have to use up every hour just like every government agency has to spend every dime in their budget or they lose funds. The waste is sickening.

    State budgets work the same way, at least in Pa.

    LBU59 ●

  • LBU59 said...

    State budgets work the same way, at least in Pa.

    Not always true, depends on the line is how I've done it.

    MTayl72 ●

  • If he is on the GW then he and I both call home the same place.

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    'Respect All Fear None."

    mezzman99

  • MTayl72 said...

    Not always true, depends on the line is how I've done it.

    Not always, however I've done plenty of business with people in the state over the years. Everyone of them told me that if they don't spend everything they have in their budget, they won't get at least the same amount the next year.

    LBU59 ●

  • LBU59 said...

    Not always, however I've done plenty of business with people in the state over the years. Everyone of them told me that if they don't spend everything they have in their budget, they won't get at least the same amount the next year.

    I know, I also know the Agencies push that a little harder than it is true. And as their budget analyst I've done plenty with them too. Granted we're talking different states now.

    MTayl72 ●

  • NittanyBill said...

    History is replete with lost and over run peoples who shared many of your short-sighted views on outside threats. I for one sleep better at night knowing we have the best.

    As a person who has participated in multiple flyovers, I can tell you for certain that these can be treated like any other training event. Squadrons have an annual flight hours budget and it doesn't matter what day you fly. We often did other training on our way to/from the flyover sight.

    A flyover is training in itself. Arriving at an event precisely at the end of the National Anthem is no different from having to have your jet at point x at an exact time to drop bombs or laze a target in a war time situation. Well, except for the being shot at part! And of course they make us fly slower than they used to.

    Back to point of this thread. The media article is yet another media fear-mongering piece designed to stir up support to stop the sequester.

    Thanks for your service - and thanks for adding some actual expertise to this discussion and confirming how eliminating flyovers is just politics.

    UncleLar ●

  • NittanyBill said...

    History is replete with lost and over run peoples who shared many of your short-sighted views on outside threats. I for one sleep better at night knowing we have the best.

    haha, you have to be joking with this. You talk about fear mongering, yet in the same breath offer some hypothetical nonsense about lost societies who dared to not arm themselves to the hilt against the threat of invaders. I'd love for you to find me an anthropologist who believes this has ever happened.

    History is most certainly ALSO replete with societies who feared every whisper in the night or became addicted to their colonial aspirations, spent far too great a portion of their GDP on defense, and collapsed when they could no longer provide basic essential services like medical care, food and shelter for the needy, etc etc. Sound familiar?

    There is NO justification for our modern military infrastructure. None. You are defending an antiquated military industrial complex that wastes for money than any single government program. You may sleep better at night knowing that your government has built up a bloated military to defend you against imaginary threats, but I certainly sleep far less soundly knowing that the funds used to provide that unnecessary service could be spent caring for the sick and needy in this country, a group which grows larger each and every day as we continue to pour funds into our colonial tradition.

    This post was edited by leftcoastlion on 3/2/2013 at 12:32 PM

    new-era said... Psu doesnt have enough to beat the conferences better teams and wiscy is one of them.

    leftcoastlion

  • "In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
    A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
    From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

    "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years.
    During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

    From bondage to spiritual faith;
    From spiritual faith to great courage;
    From courage to liberty;
    From liberty to abundance;
    From abundance to complacency;
    From complacency to apathy;
    From apathy to dependence;
    From dependence back into bondage.""

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • tmaluchnik said...

    "In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

    "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

    From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.""

    Your citation is a late 19th century historian whose quote you cite does not actually exist in any written form, nor is there any actual evidence to support his claim.

    Like I said, I want evidence. Not rhetoric. Give it a try.

    new-era said... Psu doesnt have enough to beat the conferences better teams and wiscy is one of them.

    leftcoastlion

  • So what is your solution?

    “If there is no solution to the problem then don't waste time worrying about it. If there is a solution to the problem then don't waste time worrying about it.”

    From the Dalai Lama...

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    I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said.

    psu2013

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    RRR56

  • If the military focused on eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse we could save TONS of money. KBR made a killing off of it in Iraq. Fixing that problem goes all the way from big brass making stupid logistical decisions down to the individual soldier taking a stack of DVD-Rs home to burn the latest season of Entourage.

    So instead of cutting down on what amounts to theft, they cut down on training budgets making it frustrating as hell to get a training concept approved. When you can't train you can't fight and expect to win.

    Aside from combat proficiency, we do a ton of training with/for other nations' militaries. This is a huge foreign relations tool that increases our rapport with them. If we aren't current in our training that diplomatic tool loses its effectiveness.

    MST

  • Stop with the political posts (not discussing issues necessarily, but the ones attacking other sides), they will be deleted.

    This post was edited by shavisimo2 on 3/2/2013 at 8:52 PM

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • leftcoastlion said...

    Blah blah blah republican democrat no idea what we are talking about blah blah blah

    This is an ignorant statement. i work side by side with some of the finest men and soldiers i have ever met. i have close friends in theatre as we speak. Soldier and civilians that are in the middle of it.

    I don't claim to know everything, but to not know me and claim what you are is ignorant.

    The Heel

  • leftcoastlion said...

    haha, you have to be joking with this. You talk about fear mongering, yet in the same breath offer some hypothetical nonsense about lost societies who dared to not arm themselves to the hilt against the threat of invaders. I'd love for you to find me an anthropologist who believes this has ever happened.

    History is most certainly ALSO replete with societies who feared every whisper in the night or became addicted to their colonial aspirations, spent far too great a portion of their GDP on defense, and collapsed when they could no longer provide basic essential services like medical care, food and shelter for the needy, etc etc. Sound familiar?

    There is NO justification for our modern military infrastructure. None. You are defending an antiquated military industrial complex that wastes for money than any single government program. You may sleep better at night knowing that your government has built up a bloated military to defend you against imaginary threats, but I certainly sleep far less soundly knowing that the funds used to provide that unnecessary service could be spent caring for the sick and needy in this country, a group which grows larger each and every day as we continue to pour funds into our colonial tradition.

    1000 times this ^^^

    Like I said earlier, big military is big business that congressmen use to bring the pork back to their district. The problem is a big military needs to find monsters to destroy so we can justify buying more tanks, airplanes, and bombs. Of course we don't want go after too big of a threat like China or Russia, so let's go pick on a bunch of goat herders running around in the desert. Why does nobody ask how we justify spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year and how many dead lives to chase a bunch of guys running around with AK-47's in pickup trucks 12,000 miles away?

    The way to assure peace and prosperity is through trade. You can't force a country to live peacefully through sanctions and intimidation. Make their economic survival dependent on maintaining stable trade with you, and they will be a good neighbor.

    HolyLion

  • HolyLion said...

    1000 times this ^^^

    Like I said earlier, big military is big business that congressmen use to bring the pork back to their district. The problem is a big military needs to find monsters to destroy so we can justify buying more tanks, airplanes, and bombs. Of course we don't want go after too big of a threat like China or Russia, so let's go pick on a bunch of goat herders running around in the desert. Why does nobody ask how we justify spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year and how many dead lives to chase a bunch of guys running around with AK-47's in pickup trucks 12,000 miles away?

    The way to assure peace and prosperity is through trade. You can't force a country to live peacefully through sanctions and intimidation. Make their economic survival dependent on maintaining stable trade with you, and they will be a good neighbor.

    While what you say is true and while I am by no means a fan of our war in Afghanistan, when you aren't fighting a country but rather a movement, your solution is a bit more problematic.

    UncleLar ●

  • UncleLar said...

    While what you say is true and while I am by no means a fan of our war in Afghanistan, when you aren't fighting a country but rather a movement, your solution is a bit more problematic.

    Sorry, but I reject the notion that they want to attack us because they hate our freedom or our religion. That's a ploy the neo-cons make up to make us think we're justified and there is nothing we can do to reason with them. These muslim dictators have to create a sense of nationalism to maintain the support of the people. So they tell them the evil Americans and Jews are out to get them. It's not a hard case to make when we park two aircraft carriers in the gulf and harm innocent people with our drone attacks.

    We have interfered with middle east politics for decades overthrowing governments and supporting dictators that keep the population quiet and the cheap oil flowing. We invade two of Iran's neighbors and park our navy off her shores and we wonder why they want to pursue a nuclear weapon. I wonder how we would react if Russia overthrew Canada, built bases in Vancouver and Cuba, put an aircraft carrier 500 miles off the coast of Virginia, and then used the United Nations to put sanctions on us and demand we disarm our nuclear arsenal. Probably not well.

    If we backed off and removed their common enemy, the Shia and Sunni would go back to fighting each other.

    HolyLion

  • OK guys, political time is over. Back to being a football board.

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