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ESPN: Van Natta's Story on Sanctions

  • pipedope said...

    Presidents of companies, CEO'S of companies and on the BOT's of PSU, the most important report ever issued on PSU and you just breezed threw it. Didn't have enough time to read, more important things, like a budget meeting to go over. After this is done you'll be lucky to be able to have a budget. After reading this everyone of the present BOT's should resign for not doing their duties. The more I think about this the more pissed of I get. "UNFUCKIN BELIEVEABLE" these are the leaders of PSU.

    The issue is that if you read that report, it leads to more questions. Questions that a few board members would prefer not to answer.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Posas14 on 8/5/2012 at 10:43 AM

    Posas14 ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Like it or not, Erickson saved our ass. The anger directed at him is not substantiated in regards to the NCAA sanctions. Be pissed at the 4 idiots. Be pissed at the BOT. Be pissed at the NCAA. But Erickson should not be one of the guys to be mad at.

    That's like commending PSU for the comeback win over Temple last year. We never should've been in this situation in the first instance. Cotrast PSU's handling of this situation to how Syracuse handled a similar scandal involving Bernie Fine. Erickson and the BOT allowed public sentiment to coalesce around harsh NCAA sanctions by mishandling this crisis in too many ways to list.

    Cambria Nittany

  • OSUrox said...

    i am obviously not as close to all this, but you are saying there is not going to be any investigation or punishment regarding clery act? because last i read there was

    The maximum punishment for failing to report a criminal action under the Clery Act is $25,000. The entire reason Freeh included the Clery Act was to make it seem like some serious federal crime had occurred, which like most of the rest of his report, is a farce.

    helpdesk

  • helpdesk said...

    The maximum punishment for failing to report a criminal action under the Clery Act is $25,000. The entire reason Freeh included the Clery Act was to make it seem like some serious federal crime had occurred, which like most of the rest of his report, is a farce.

    well, i believe that is per incident. and they can also lose federal aid like grants, loans and work study.

    OSUrox

  • OSUrox said...

    well, i believe that is per incident. and they can also lose federal aid like grants, loans and work study.

    There is only one POTENTIAL Cleary incident..in 2001.

    There are no other incidents of failure to report, or Cleary issues to my knowledge.

    Hopefully we'll know more about 2001 in the Schultz / Curley trials.

    Posas14 ●

  • Posas14 said...

    There is only one POTENTIAL Cleary incident..in 2001.

    There are no other incidents of failure to report, or Cleary issues to my knowledge.

    Hopefully we'll know more about 2001 in the Schultz / Curley trials.

    i'm signing off, hate to get into it on others boards. but there is more about the clery act than just 1 sandusky incident, like how it was implemented and how officials were trained (or not trained) on it.

    Also, there was another incident in 2002, a dorm room rape accusation by a player, a CB I believe. I remember the stink about paterno letting that player play. I believe he was acquitted or charges dropped or whatever. but the key is, it was not reported as all accusations are supposed to be according to the clery act.

    while there may be no other sandusky acts that were not reported, if the feds are investigating violations of the clery act and any non reporting or mishandling of sex crimes, there may be more out there in the past 14 years.

    carry on.

    OSUrox

  • OSUrox said...

    "majority of the NCAA's Division I board of directors -- 18 university presidents -- had coalesced around a decision: Shut down Penn State's football program for four years."

    Emmert could have sucked up to those presidents and went along with a 4 year death penalty. Maybe Emmert actually WAS your friend on this by bargaining with you.

    You actually believe that? That is false. Lets wait for ONE president to come out and say "after the Freeh report came out, we reviewed it, in detail, compared it to our rules, and took a vote to give Penn State the death penalty".

    It is a lie - notice Emmert has not tied his name to the quote so he can deny it later. Ray and Emmert have changed their stories 3 times in all of this. Ray almost called Erickson a liar in an interview about the issue of the death penalty.

    Pennoyer

  • Pennoyer said...

    You actually believe that? That is false. Lets wait for ONE president to come out and say "after the Freeh report came out, we reviewed it, in detail, compared it to our rules, and took a vote to give Penn State the death penalty".

    It is a lie - notice Emmert has not tied his name to the quote so he can deny it later. Ray and Emmert have changed their stories 3 times in all of this. Ray almost called Erickson a liar in an interview about the issue of the death penalty.

    or, we could wait for 1 president to come out and say emmert is some rogue maniac who didn't even talk to any of the presidents and obviously has a personal vendetta against psu and this is all a lie.

    OSUrox

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    arringfortt11

  • Pennoyer said...

    You actually believe that? That is false. Lets wait for ONE president to come out and say "after the Freeh report came out, we reviewed it, in detail, compared it to our rules, and took a vote to give Penn State the death penalty".

    It is a lie - notice Emmert has not tied his name to the quote so he can deny it later. Ray and Emmert have changed their stories 3 times in all of this. Ray almost called Erickson a liar in an interview about the issue of the death penalty.

    NCAthleticA pushed all in with 72 off suit and RTDE folded quickly.

    danmcc

  • helpdesk said...

    The maximum punishment for failing to report a criminal action under the Clery Act is $25,000. The entire reason Freeh included the Clery Act was to make it seem like some serious federal crime had occurred, which like most of the rest of his report, is a farce.

    Federal officials probe Penn State for possible Clery Act violations - The Washington Post

    The Department of Education is examining whether the school violated the Clery Act, which requires reporting of crimes on campus, in its handling of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

    www.washingtonpost.com
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  • OSUrox said...

    i'm signing off, hate to get into it on others boards. but there is more about the clery act than just 1 sandusky incident, like how it was implemented and how officials were trained (or not trained) on it.

    Also, there was another incident in 2002, a dorm room rape accusation by a player, a CB I believe. I remember the stink about paterno letting that player play. I believe he was acquitted or charges dropped or whatever. but the key is, it was not reported as all accusations are supposed to be according to the clery act.

    while there may be no other sandusky acts that were not reported, if the feds are investigating violations of the clery act and any non reporting or mishandling of sex crimes, there may be more out there in the past 14 years.

    carry on.

    You are correct. There's also the possibility that there are a lot more Clery Act violations out there because PSU was understaffed and undertrained. Once the feds go through the details it's very likely many more violations will be uncovered.

    UncleLar

  • Seems we're not alone, here's a report from Univ. of Michigan:

    LA Times
    By Matt Pearce
    This post has been corrected, as indicated below.
    July 15, 2012, 4:26 p.m.
    ANN ARBOR, Mich. — Penn State isn’t the only university that’s had a problem reporting sex crimes.

    Here in Ann Arbor, in December, federal prosecutors charged Stephen Jenson, a resident physician at the University of Michigan hospital studying pediatrics, with possession of child pornography.

    Yet a co-worker had reported seeing the child porn six months earlier. The co-worker briefly caught a glimpse of what she thought was child pornography on a computer Jenson had been using in a medical residents' lounge. She told a supervisor, who then told another supervisor, who told another official and so on and so on, until at least eight Michigan employees knew about the child porn allegations.

    After a series of misunderstandings and confusion over who was responsible for the case — and a lack of clear evidence beyond the woman’s allegation — no one reported Jenson to the police.

    Posas14 ●

  • Cambria Nittany said...

    That's like commending PSU for the comeback win over Temple last year. We never should've been in this situation in the first instance. Cotrast PSU's handling of this situation to how Syracuse handled a similar scandal involving Bernie Fine. Erickson and the BOT allowed public sentiment to coalesce around harsh NCAA sanctions by mishandling this crisis in too many ways to list.

    We should have never been in this situation because Paterno, Schultz, Curley, Spanier or McQueary should have filed a police report and they didn't. That is why we were in this situation, not because of Erickson. I don't know what you think he could have done to make this any better. Deny, deny, deny? Come on man, this was not his fault. Frankly, it is disgusting that Erickson is taking more heat than Paterno in this.

    getmyjive11 ●

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    Cambria Nittany

  • getmyjive11 said...

    We should have never been in this situation because Paterno, Schultz, Curley, Spanier or McQueary should have filed a police report and they didn't. That is why we were in this situation, not because of Erickson. I don't know what you think he could have done to make this any better. Deny, deny, deny? Come on man, this was not his fault. Frankly, it is disgusting that Erickson is taking more heat than Paterno in this.

    Wasn't Erickson the one who gave emeritus status to JS? We wouldn't be in thus mess, as he wouldn't have been allowed on campus, were that not the case.

    As to police filing. I don't know but dont expect an AD to report with 2nd hand info.

    MM surely should have, if he saw what he claims. Considering we can't be sure what he saw who knows.

    Joe as coach with 2nd hand info also should not have. See MM for lack of story verification as well...apply to Curly also. Also, no longer his employee or authority.

    Schultz didn't need to file. It was within his ability to simply order an investigation. If he did nothing I'm baffled.

    Spanier with his backgroud surprises me as well. One would think things should gave been handled better. With both these last two men one wonders what MM related, as they are both also only second hand. However with the emeritus status out there, not sure how the Pres couldn't be involved more if he claims he wasn't.

    I find it disgusting reading much of the should have stuff presented with disregard for the scenarios and facts present, most especially those facts that were present at the time. Even fewer thab the tiny amount we currently have to work with.

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  • Seltz said...

    Wasn't Erickson the one who gave emeritus status to JS? We wouldn't be in thus mess, as he wouldn't have been allowed on campus, were that not the case.

    As to police filing. I don't know but dont expect an AD to report with 2nd hand info.

    MM surely should have, if he saw what he claims. Considering we can't be sure what he saw who knows.

    Joe as coach with 2nd hand info also should not have. See MM for lack of story verification as well...apply to Curly also. Also, no longer his employee or authority.

    Schultz didn't need to file. It was within his ability to simply order an investigation. If he did nothing I'm baffled.

    Spanier with his backgroud surprises me as well. One would think things should gave been handled better. With both these last two men one wonders what MM related, as they are both also only second hand. However with the emeritus status out there, not sure how the Pres couldn't be involved more if he claims he wasn't.

    I find it disgusting reading much of the should have stuff presented with disregard for the scenarios and facts present, most especially those facts that were present at the time. Even fewer thab the tiny amount we currently have to work with.

    The bottom line is that if any of the idiots reported it, we wouldn't be in this mess. The university wouldn't be out 100's of millions of dollars, the football team wouldn't be sanctioned and the public wouldn't view poorly like they do. Erickson didn't cause this, he is here to take the lumps. Reading that article that the OP posted, he did way more than simply roll over as many were suggesting. The fact that Marsh came here and was floored about what the NCAA proposed says everything. This was the best deal that anyone could get. If it wasn't, Marsh would have advised Erickson to take a different path.

    getmyjive11 ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    The bottom line is that if any of the idiots reported it, we wouldn't be in this mess. The university wouldn't be out 100's of millions of dollars, the football team wouldn't be sanctioned and the public wouldn't view poorly like they do. Erickson didn't cause this, he is here to take the lumps. Reading that article that the OP posted, he did way more than simply roll over as many were suggesting. The fact that Marsh came here and was floored about what the NCAA proposed says everything. This was the best deal that anyone could get. If it wasn't, Marsh would have advised Erickson to take a different path.

    If you really think that this was the best course of action we could have taken in regards to sanctions, then please let me know the next time you get a poker game going. I'll take the word of NCAA legal experts in their lack of jurisdiction here over an internet article on espn.com.

    "I believe in what Coach Paterno set forth.”- Garrett Sickels "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation."- Gerald Hodges

    fortheglory94 ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    The bottom line is that if any of the idiots reported it, we wouldn't be in this mess. The university wouldn't be out 100's of millions of dollars, the football team wouldn't be sanctioned and the public wouldn't view poorly like they do. Erickson didn't cause this, he is here to take the lumps. Reading that article that the OP posted, he did way more than simply roll over as many were suggesting. The fact that Marsh came here and was floored about what the NCAA proposed says everything. This was the best deal that anyone could get. If it wasn't, Marsh would have advised Erickson to take a different path.

    No, the bottom line is JS shouldn't have been allowed with kids it seems. Not getting Emeritus status would have kept us out of this also.(though strangely enough may have let him terrify kids even longer) There are a lot of things that keep us out of this. The focus of many and disregard to what I mentioned above, as well as other things, is disgusting. A couple of them have days in court yet are already villains? I will not be one to accuse without proof here, and burden of proof is supposed to be on the accusers.

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  • fortheglory94 said...

    If you really think that this was the best course of action we could have taken in regards to sanctions, then please let me know the next time you get a poker game going. I'll take the word of NCAA legal experts in their lack of jurisdiction here over an internet article on espn.com.

    Marsh is a guy who built a reputation on taking on the NCAA. You are basically saying that he didn't know what the hell he was doing. Why don't you think he told Erickson to fight it? I know the reason, but I want to hear what you think.

    getmyjive11 ●

  • Seltz said...

    No, the bottom line is JS shouldn't have been allowed with kids it seems. Not getting Emeritus status would have kept us out of this also.(though strangely enough may have let him terrify kids even longer) There are a lot of things that keep us out of this. The focus of many and disregard to what I mentioned above, as well as other things, is disgusting. A couple of them have days in court yet are already villains? I will not be one to accuse without proof here, and burden of proof is supposed to be on the accusers.

    You can't blame anyone for anything that happened before 2001. 1998 was investigated and no charges were brought forth. You can't argue that we should villify people for '98 and then turn around and say that we shouldn't pass judgement on those who have not yet had their day in court for 2001. The '98 case merely makes the people who knew about it and were involved in 2001 (mainly Schultz) look worse. But it ends there.

    getmyjive11 ●

  • OSUrox said...

    i'm signing off, hate to get into it on others boards. but there is more about the clery act than just 1 sandusky incident, like how it was implemented and how officials were trained (or not trained) on it.

    Also, there was another incident in 2002, a dorm room rape accusation by a player, a CB I believe. I remember the stink about paterno letting that player play. I believe he was acquitted or charges dropped or whatever. but the key is, it was not reported as all accusations are supposed to be according to the clery act.

    while there may be no other sandusky acts that were not reported, if the feds are investigating violations of the clery act and any non reporting or mishandling of sex crimes, there may be more out there in the past 14 years.

    carry on.

    As far as the Clery Act relates to the Sandusky issues there was one incident that was obviously not properly reported. Anything outside of Sandusky wouldn't be relevant to the NCAA sanctions this thread is referencing (unless they were covered up for the athletic department, which seems unlikely in the media frenzy of recent years as it relates to PSU athlete arrests).

    No idea if the Phillips incident was reported properly or Austin Scott for that matter. Phillips was found not guilty and charges were dropped against Scott. It would seem unlikely that either incident was excluded from the crime logs to hide the fact that they happened when both were national news stories.

    If campus crime reports were being manipulated the feds will figure it out and Penn State will pay for it. But it doesn't currently appear to have anything to do with the athletics department and was more of a global campus security reporting failure. A lot of other schools are now noticing similar issues and making adjustments to fix their Clery issues. All I am saying is don't confuse Clery Act violations as a whole with the Sandusky failings as they are quite distinct.

    helpdesk

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Marsh is a guy who built a reputation on taking on the NCAA. You are basically saying that he didn't know what the hell he was doing. Why don't you think he told Erickson to fight it? I know the reason, but I want to hear what you think.

    My honest opinion from that article is that we wasted more money on the hire of this Marsh character and he should be let go considering he serves no purpose to us anymore (not that he did two weeks ago either). We heard for months NCAA legal experts say this is not in their jurisdiction. What makes anyone think that they were all wrong and that a court would not agree with them? The NCAA played hardball with no platform to back them up, and we chose to crumble before that. Emmert essentially bluffed Erickson into handing over nearly all of his chips.

    I'm not sure what it is that you know, or how you have such knowledge. The above is what I took from that article.

    "I believe in what Coach Paterno set forth.”- Garrett Sickels "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation."- Gerald Hodges

    fortheglory94 ●

  • fortheglory94 said...

    My honest opinion from that article is that we wasted more money on the hire of this Marsh character and he should be let go considering he serves no purpose to us anymore (not that he did two weeks ago either). We heard for months NCAA legal experts say this is not in their jurisdiction. What makes anyone think that they were all wrong and that a court would not agree with them? The NCAA played hardball with no platform to back them up, and we chose to crumble before that. Emmert essentially bluffed Erickson into handing over nearly all of his chips.

    I'm not sure what it is that you know, or how you have such knowledge. The above is what I took from that article.

    What I'm saying is that Marsh has played hardball in the past with the NCAA and has been successful. He is a lawyer... you don't think he would have an idea as to what PSU could and could not accomplish in a court of law? Clearly, he thought that the risks far outweighed the benefits.

    getmyjive11 ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    What I'm saying is that Marsh has played hardball in the past with the NCAA and has been successful. He is a lawyer... you don't think he would have an idea as to what PSU could and could not accomplish in a court of law? Clearly, he thought that the risks far outweighed the benefits.

    Or he was instructed as to what concessions Erickson and the BOT were willing to make without fighting back.

    helpdesk

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