Online Now 802

The Lions' Pride

Black shoes, basic blues. No names, all game

On this Board 539
Record: 4947 (7/23/2012)

Online now 781
Record: 7381 (3/13/2012)

Boards ▾

The Lions' Pride

Black shoes, basic blues. No names, all game

Ticket Exchange

Buy, sell and swap tickets

Reply

David Williams or Derrick Green?

  • This post is for members of Lions247 only. Join now! Subscribe Now

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • As others have said, Williams appears to be the more likely option of the two.

    I also prefer him, although they are different backs. While he can take it outside against HS competition, you can tell from the film that Green's bread and butter will be in between the tackles at the next level. He looks like a guy that can turn 2 yards into 4, and use his strength to pound out 8-12 yard carries when he's on. However, I'm not sold that he has the speed to go the distance.

    Williams, on the other hand, is a smaller, speedier back. He will not fare nearly as well between the tackles, but if he gets a hole, he's gone.

    Both backs are of an elite skill level.

    F the NCAA F the BOT F ESPN F Sandusky

    PSU42Fan

  • PSUfanatic25 said...

    Let's just say hypothetically they both want to come to PSU and you are BOB. Which do you take and why? Also percentages we get them..

    -For me I take Green because even though I am not good at evaluating highlight tapes I can tell that he is dishing out a bunch of big hits by how slow the defenders are to get up after tackling him. He also shows great speed. Williams may have better speed, but Green is a much more well-rounded back IMO. -Green: 50% -Williams: 70%

    I think you take the one that wants to come. If both do, then take both. I think with the ships that opened up, that is now an option. RB is one position that takes a beating and to have more than one good one is required to go all the way.

    PSUJIM85

  • I say take em both but i honestly think we have little chance of getting Green. I think the staff feels pretty good about where we are for DW. I also think the staff sees the writing on the wall concerning Green so they're pushing harder for Zaire W. This staff continues to blow me away with the job their doing with this class. It scares me to think of next year when they've had time to evaluate these kids in advance! We Are!

    Jfelt

  • That's a tough one. I think I'm biased towards power backs so I'd probably have to say Green, but Williams speed is so intriguing. That would be an impressive combo if we could take both, but I think as soon as one commits the other drops us.

    stigs007

  • stigs007 said...

    That's a tough one. I think I'm biased towards power backs so I'd probably have to say Green, but Williams speed is so intriguing. That would be an impressive combo if we could take both, but I think as soon as one commits the other drops us.

    Which is why Ive said, Williams this year, Owens next year (kid from Pollards HS). I think hes better than Green, beastly.

    signature image signature image signature image

    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147 ●

  • I prefer Green, I think the ability to gain 3 to 5 yards consistently between the tackles will open up the outside passing game and the play action game. That said, Williams versatility would be a nice in the hurry up offense.

    Lion_in_CBus

  • I understand the comparisons between Green and Williams, but the one I don't understand is the speed of the two. Green has run faster forty times that Williams at camps this year, and he even has a fast 10 yard split for the first ten yards. I would hands down take a guy that is as shifty, powerful, and as fast as Green over an all purpose type back like Williams. To be honest, if I had the opportunity to take both, I would take both, and use them to compliment each other, but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd pick the one that can get the tough yards for sure in Green.

    NitLionsGo

  • NitLionsGo said...

    I understand the comparisons between Green and Williams, but the one I don't understand is the speed of the two. Green has run faster forty times that Williams at camps this year, and he even has a fast 10 yard split for the first ten yards. I would hands down take a guy that is as shifty, powerful, and as fast as Green over an all purpose type back like Williams. To be honest, if I had the opportunity to take both, I would take both, and use them to compliment each other, but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd pick the one that can get the tough yards for sure in Green.

    If Green is faster than Williams, it sure doesn't show up on film that way.

    My guess is that Williams is mid 4.4 kid, while Green is a mid 4.5 guy.

    Again, only my opinion from watching their repective film.

    "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation." - Gerald Hodges

    PSUHomer

  • NitLionsGo said...

    I understand the comparisons between Green and Williams, but the one I don't understand is the speed of the two. Green has run faster forty times that Williams at camps this year, and he even has a fast 10 yard split for the first ten yards. I would hands down take a guy that is as shifty, powerful, and as fast as Green over an all purpose type back like Williams. To be honest, if I had the opportunity to take both, I would take both, and use them to compliment each other, but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd pick the one that can get the tough yards for sure in Green.

    I don't think Green has ever run faster than a laser timed 4.42, which is what Williams ran earlier this year when he was the fastest player out of something like 1000 kids at a combine. Not saying Green isn't fast, just saying he hasn't run faster at camps.

    gemrich

  • gemrich said...

    I don't think Green has ever run faster than a laser timed 4.42, which is what Williams ran earlier this year when he was the fastest player out of something like 1000 kids at a combine. Not saying Green isn't fast, just saying he hasn't run faster at camps.

    He ran a 4.31 hand timed forty at Penn State's camp last summer, which was electronically timed at 4.37. He also ran a 4.36 electronically timed forty at OSU last year. He ran sub 4.4 forty's at UVA, OSU, VT, and PSU. I'm not trying to start an argument, but he's consistently run sub 4.4 forty times, I didn't just make that up. I'm sure if we ask the staff here that they can validate these times for us.

    I'm from VA, and involved in coaching high school kids and running camps down here. I remember when Green was a 5'8" 270 pound offensive lineman, until he got serious and cut all that weight and started training with an actually trainer. He cut a lot of weight, got a lot stronger, and faster.

    I did watch both films though, and you are right, David Williams does look faster on film, but one observation I did make, is that Williams highlight film features a lot of stretch plays that allowed him to get to the outside. Green's tape included a lot of runs up the gut of the offense, a few stretch plays, and a couple screen passes. I would love to see both of these guys in person at the same camp to see how they compare. I've seen Green play live, he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape.

    NitLionsGo

  • NitLionsGo said...

    He ran a 4.31 hand timed forty at Penn State's camp last summer, which was electronically timed at 4.37. He also ran a 4.36 electronically timed forty at OSU last year. He ran sub 4.4 forty's at UVA, OSU, VT, and PSU. I'm not trying to start an argument, but he's consistently run sub 4.4 forty times, I didn't just make that up. I'm sure if we ask the staff here that they can validate these times for us.

    I'm from VA, and involved in coaching high school kids and running camps down here. I remember when Green was a 5'8" 270 pound offensive lineman, until he got serious and cut all that weight and started training with an actually trainer. He cut a lot of weight, got a lot stronger, and faster.

    I did watch both films though, and you are right, David Williams does look faster on film, but one observation I did make, is that Williams highlight film features a lot of stretch plays that allowed him to get to the outside. Green's tape included a lot of runs up the gut of the offense, a few stretch plays, and a couple screen passes. I would love to see both of these guys in person at the same camp to see how they compare. I've seen Green play live, he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape.

    Are they both playing in the under armor game?

    signature image signature image signature image

    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147 ●

  • NitLionsGo said...

    He ran a 4.31 hand timed forty at Penn State's camp last summer, which was electronically timed at 4.37. He also ran a 4.36 electronically timed forty at OSU last year. He ran sub 4.4 forty's at UVA, OSU, VT, and PSU. I'm not trying to start an argument, but he's consistently run sub 4.4 forty times, I didn't just make that up. I'm sure if we ask the staff here that they can validate these times for us.

    I'm from VA, and involved in coaching high school kids and running camps down here. I remember when Green was a 5'8" 270 pound offensive lineman, until he got serious and cut all that weight and started training with an actually trainer. He cut a lot of weight, got a lot stronger, and faster.

    I did watch both films though, and you are right, David Williams does look faster on film, but one observation I did make, is that Williams highlight film features a lot of stretch plays that allowed him to get to the outside. Green's tape included a lot of runs up the gut of the offense, a few stretch plays, and a couple screen passes. I would love to see both of these guys in person at the same camp to see how they compare. I've seen Green play live, he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape.

    T'would appear I should have done some research first, you're definitely not starting an argument as I try to avoid arguments I can't win. I have never heard of him running that fast, and it shocks me beyond belief. Sub 4.4 electronic is stupid fast. Like I have a hard time believing it despite the evidence fast. I feel like this should be a bigger deal.

    And I just read up on him a bit more. He was 270 as a freshman and ran a 5.2? Pretty unique story, now I am intrigued. I wish his junior film wasn't of crappy quality, but I am now very intrigued.

    gemrich

  • NitLionsGo said...

    He ran a 4.31 hand timed forty at Penn State's camp last summer, which was electronically timed at 4.37. He also ran a 4.36 electronically timed forty at OSU last year. He ran sub 4.4 forty's at UVA, OSU, VT, and PSU. I'm not trying to start an argument, but he's consistently run sub 4.4 forty times, I didn't just make that up. I'm sure if we ask the staff here that they can validate these times for us.

    I'm from VA, and involved in coaching high school kids and running camps down here. I remember when Green was a 5'8" 270 pound offensive lineman, until he got serious and cut all that weight and started training with an actually trainer. He cut a lot of weight, got a lot stronger, and faster.

    I did watch both films though, and you are right, David Williams does look faster on film, but one observation I did make, is that Williams highlight film features a lot of stretch plays that allowed him to get to the outside. Green's tape included a lot of runs up the gut of the offense, a few stretch plays, and a couple screen passes. I would love to see both of these guys in person at the same camp to see how they compare. I've seen Green play live, he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape.

    I was lucky enough to be able to attend the NFL scouting combine this year for the website I cover, and I was intrigued by the 40(as most people there are). It is much different in Indy than it would be at a camp. I also coach, and we have 2 preseason combines, where we do 40, broad, medicine ball throw, lifts, etc, and we actually hand time, so our times are not what I would call "legit".

    I have a very hard time believing a high school RB at 220 lbs ran a 4.31/4.37 40. That is sick fast. That is Patrick Peterson fast. I also don't understand this comment: "he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape." Tape is tape. Unless it's sped up, or slown down, it is what it is; real time footage of a play. So are you saying when you saw him play live, he broke 50+ yard runs, but on gtape he could maybe pop for 20? I don't get that. I've heard the expression that a guy can play faster on the field that what his 40 time may be...........but this is obviously not what you meant. It seems to be the exact opposite here. If what your saying is true(that he has low-to-mid 4.3 speed) it certainly doesn't show up on the field.

    In this case, all I care about is football speed; you know the type of speed a back has when they strap the ole' pads on. It would appear to me that Williams has the better football speed, unless the defenses in Virginia are just THAT much faster than in Philly.

    Not trying to break your balls here - just trying to wrap my head around what you posted.

    This post was edited by PSUHomer on 6/28/2012 at 7:06 AM

    "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation." - Gerald Hodges

    PSUHomer

  • Got to be realistic here ... I prefer the kid who wants to come to PSU and is more likely to be here. That is easily Williams. Not saying he is a lock to come, but he is a much more realistic get for PSU ... its not that close either.

    Hamilton Lion ●

  • Hamilton Lion said...

    Got to be realistic here ... I prefer the kid who wants to come to PSU and is more likely to be here. That is easily Williams. Not saying he is a lock to come, but he is a much more realistic get for PSU ... its not that close either.

    I gotta agree with Hamilton here.

    "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation." - Gerald Hodges

    PSUHomer

  • PSUHomer said...

    I have a very hard time believing a high school RB at 220 lbs ran a 4.31/4.37 40. That is sick fast. That is Patrick Peterson fast. I also don't understand this comment: "he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape." Tape is tape. Unless it's sped up, or slown down, it is what it is; real time footage of a play. So are you saying when you saw him play live, he broke 50+ yard runs, but on gtape he could maybe pop for 20? I don't get that. I've heard the expression that a guy can play faster on the field that what his 40 time may be...........but this is obviously not what you meant. It seems to be the exact opposite here. If what your saying is true(that he has low-to-mid 4.3 speed) it certainly doesn't show up on the field.

    could have meant it like hockey, looks way faster in the stadium then wide screened on a 80 inch TV

    signature image signature image signature image

    Roaringlion

  • Response to gemrich:

    Wow, its nice to be able to have a discussion, another reason why I am enjoying this site already. Before, I would refrain from saying things because my experience on BWI was very negative posting on their boards. It's as if you had to prove yourself to a select few that dictate the boards.

    Anyways, yeah, he was huge as a freshman, then as a sophomore he ran a 4.6, then he picked up speed over the past two years while working with an athletic trainer. He can do a legit squat of over 600 lbs as a junior in high school. That's with depth and proper technique. The film really does kill him and I'll touch more on that on my next response to the comment after this.

    This post was edited by NitLionsGo on 6/28/2012 at 12:52 PM

    NitLionsGo

  • PSUHomer said...

    I was lucky enough to be able to attend the NFL scouting combine this year for the website I cover, and I was intrigued by the 40(as most people there are). It is much different in Indy than it would be at a camp. I also coach, and we have 2 preseason combines, where we do 40, broad, medicine ball throw, lifts, etc, and we actually hand time, so our times are not what I would call "legit".

    I have a very hard time believing a high school RB at 220 lbs ran a 4.31/4.37 40. That is sick fast. That is Patrick Peterson fast. I also don't understand this comment: "he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape." Tape is tape. Unless it's sped up, or slown down, it is what it is; real time footage of a play. So are you saying when you saw him play live, he broke 50+ yard runs, but on gtape he could maybe pop for 20? I don't get that. I've heard the expression that a guy can play faster on the field that what his 40 time may be...........but this is obviously not what you meant. It seems to be the exact opposite here. If what your saying is true(that he has low-to-mid 4.3 speed) it certainly doesn't show up on the field.

    In this case, all I care about is football speed; you know the type of speed a back has when they strap the ole' pads on. It would appear to me that Williams has the better football speed, unless the defenses in Virginia are just THAT much faster than in Philly.

    Not trying to break your balls here - just trying to wrap my head around what you posted.

    Homer, I meant it in the sense you first stated. The fact is that these players dub their tapes before they post them on youtube and touch them up to appear faster and those that don't appear slower. I know a lot of players that will speed up the tape when by 1/8th of a second because that is all it takes to make them look that much faster. Also, some players will edit their tapes in a sense where they focus the tape on them and kind of blur out the surrounding players. These little changes will make them look faster on tape. As for Green, his tape doesn't have a lot of that make up.

    The second thing I meant, is that you can't really tell how fast they are on tape because you truly cant judge how fast the players are that they're playing against on tape. When you watch tape, you kind of have this biased mindset that you want to be wowed, but in reality you don't know the level of competition these kids are playing against. Where Green plays is a hotbed of talent in the Richmond and Hampton Roads area. A lot of Division I athletes are coming out of there year in and year out. I don't know what the competition is like where D. Williams plays, so its hard to compare the tapes on a level basis.

    I hope this clarifies what I meant.

    NitLionsGo

  • I guess D Williams plans on enrolling early wherever he goes, so a decision could come soon.

    Top247 all-purpose back David Williams enjoys Tennessee visit

    Top247 all-purpose back David Williams of Philadelphia visited Tennessee for the first time Saturday, and he says the Vols now are among the teams standing out to him.

    tennessee.247sports.com

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • NitLionsGo said...

    Homer, I meant it in the sense you first stated. The fact is that these players dub their tapes before they post them on youtube and touch them up to appear faster and those that don't appear slower. I know a lot of players that will speed up the tape when by 1/8th of a second because that is all it takes to make them look that much faster. Also, some players will edit their tapes in a sense where they focus the tape on them and kind of blur out the surrounding players. These little changes will make them look faster on tape. As for Green, his tape doesn't have a lot of that make up.

    The second thing I meant, is that you can't really tell how fast they are on tape because you truly cant judge how fast the players are that they're playing against on tape. When you watch tape, you kind of have this biased mindset that you want to be wowed, but in reality you don't know the level of competition these kids are playing against. Where Green plays is a hotbed of talent in the Richmond and Hampton Roads area. A lot of Division I athletes are coming out of there year in and year out. I don't know what the competition is like where D. Williams plays, so its hard to compare the tapes on a level basis.

    I hope this clarifies what I meant.

    absolutely, thanks. didn't mean to sound like a doubter.

    "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation." - Gerald Hodges

    PSUHomer

  • PSUHomer said...

    I was lucky enough to be able to attend the NFL scouting combine this year for the website I cover, and I was intrigued by the 40(as most people there are). It is much different in Indy than it would be at a camp. I also coach, and we have 2 preseason combines, where we do 40, broad, medicine ball throw, lifts, etc, and we actually hand time, so our times are not what I would call "legit".

    I have a very hard time believing a high school RB at 220 lbs ran a 4.31/4.37 40. That is sick fast. That is Patrick Peterson fast. I also don't understand this comment: "he's a lot faster in person than he is on tape." Tape is tape. Unless it's sped up, or slown down, it is what it is; real time footage of a play. So are you saying when you saw him play live, he broke 50+ yard runs, but on gtape he could maybe pop for 20? I don't get that. I've heard the expression that a guy can play faster on the field that what his 40 time may be...........but this is obviously not what you meant. It seems to be the exact opposite here. If what your saying is true(that he has low-to-mid 4.3 speed) it certainly doesn't show up on the field.

    In this case, all I care about is football speed; you know the type of speed a back has when they strap the ole' pads on. It would appear to me that Williams has the better football speed, unless the defenses in Virginia are just THAT much faster than in Philly.

    Not trying to break your balls here - just trying to wrap my head around what you posted.

    Homer, check out FreeLap. They are really cool and give about the most accurate times you can get.

    http://www.freelaptrackandfield.com/

    Play

    Freelap - Track and field

    Freelap in athletic

    http://www.youtube.com/v/qijZk6UK6Dg

    You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game, life or football-the margin for error is so small. -Pacino

    tmaluchnik

  • PSUHomer said...

    absolutely, thanks. didn't mean to sound like a doubter.

    Not at all man, I enjoyed ur posts

    NitLionsGo

  • @tmaluchnik said...

    Homer, check out FreeLap. They are really cool and give about the most accurate times you can get.

    http://www.freelaptrackandfield.com/

    Damn, that's pretty sweet. Thanks for posting! I'm going to check this out.

    "A bowl game ain't nothing but a vacation." - Gerald Hodges

    PSUHomer

  • NitLionsGo said...

    Response to gemrich:

    Wow, its nice to be able to have a discussion, another reason why I am enjoying this site already. Before, I would refrain from saying things because my experience on BWI was very negative posting on their boards. It's as if you had to prove yourself to a select few that dictate the boards.

    Did I say you could post?

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

Penn State
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports