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Another thing I've learned from being a police officer is that negativity and cynicism is a cancer that plagues our society. There have been many times where I've been sucked in (probably will again in the future since its human nature), but this is one instance where I feel like a lot of us as Penn Staters are just going for the jugular against everyone in every situation, lol.
If you think about it, there's a time and point in everyone's life where they were caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing, and they said they were unaware of what happened, played dumb, or lied about not seeing anything. Since its Ray Lewis and the media sensationalized it, we want to say he "tampered with a murder investigation" or "misled investigators", hahaha, the media cracks me up when talking about investigations.
The most ironic thing about the whole case is that the two guys who actually stabbed the guys in the street brawl got acquitted and didnt serve any time. Had Ray not plead and became a witness for the prosecution, he would have been acquitted as well. He's even the only one to serve any time for what happened because he pled guilty to Obstruction of Justice. That's a common offer by every DA/CA when they have a weak case, but they claim they have more, strike fear in one of the co-defendants because their thinking is getting at least one guy is better than getting no one. Trust me, I know how the system works.
Right next to the Michael Jackson statue.
Very good post(s). This is a reminder that no one on this board should need, with what happened at PSU and what many of us deal with on a day to day basis based on how the media depicted it.
Right next to the statue of Mohamed Morsi............their most successful alum
Another cancer that plagues our society is criminals.
Nit, you're forgetting the part where the limo conveniently changed his story from Lewis being an active participant to Lewis trying to break the fight up between the Grand Jury trial and the criminal trial. Lewis pleaded to obstruction because he did obstruct.
I didn't say he didn't obstruct, I just said its a weak obstruction case. There's a difference. I was also pointing out how simple someone could get charged for obstruction and the fact that everyone lies in these situations.
I love how many have decided on contradicting statements and no evidence that he's a murderer, but many of you on this board will fight to the death to invalidate mcquearys testimony to vindicate joe. I guess it's just different when it's someone you adore.
Again, I'm not saying joe was guilty or ray was innocent, just pointing out the inconsistency in the way we approach these topics and how we as penn staters shouldn't be so damn hypocritical.
Also read the transcript of the trial and the grand jury presentment, it was revealed that the limo driver was asked leading and fully loaded questions, which are unethical in a grand jury presentment that paint a one sided story.
Did you see the men in an altercation? Did you see ray get involved in the altercation? Thank you, that's all we need to establish probable cause to indict and for this to go to trial.
Grand jury determines whether its probable that the person committed a crime. The trial is where all sides of the story are heard. Sandusky had his side heard and lost. Joe and PSU just got convicted in court of public opinion, no due process, and got indicted and convicted by the mass public based on a grand jury presentment and JS trial and Louis Freehs info.
I would like to hear the other sides of the story. Ray got his chance and got vindicated. It was so obvious to a jury that their deliberation barely took an hour. That's as clear cut as it gets, but now we're clinging to the obstruction charge to vilify him.
If you've ever lied to a police officer or not answered his questions fully, you've also obstructed. The difference is ray owned it when he cut a deal and served his time for that charge, but that doesn't make him a murderer.
Guess it's time to book a plane w/ banner.
Yeah, actual murderers, rapists, pedophiles, drug dealers, human traffickers, etc.
Ray owned his charge and served his time, move on. Jury deliberated for about an hour and cleared the case as self defense. It was clear and evident that these charges were fueled by the media and not a thorough investigation.
Listen, my only point is that we sit here and complain about how we were convicted by the media and mass ignorance, but we are so quick to do the same thing because in our eyes everyone else is so easy to villify.
Ray had his day in court and our system is not that broken that they'll blow an obvious murder case.
All this anger should just reveal one thing. Even if penn state (& joepa) get vindicated and do get due process, it won't matter, because the masses have already convicted both due to the mass media sensationalism and won't change their minds. The same way most won't change their minds that Ray is a murderer.
This post was edited by NitLionsGo 17 months ago
NitLionsGo, look I agree with a lot of what you have said but this quote "Look, I'm a cop, and I'll be the first to tell you that everyone lies to the cops. Whether its self preservation, panic, fear, or deliberate, I know the first thing anyone ever tells me is lie. Whether its a violent crime, or a simple speeding ticket." Is absolutely absurd. Yes I'm sure a fair amount of people you come across are lying, but to have already have your mind made up before hearing what someone has to say is doing a great injustice to your profession. And it's just a very untrue statement.
It wasn't a literal statement, i was painting a picture to get a point across.
At the same time, I don't have my mind made up that this person is going to be a liar but I expect everyone to lie to me or not be fully truthful. Thats why I converse with people, gather facts, have follow ups, and do things on a consistent and in depth approach. This way you determine who is lying and who is telling the truth. This is how you do the job.
All I'm thinking about approaching someone on a scee is safety and gathering facts to piece together what happened and expecting inconsistencies because there's always someone that's going to lie.
And honestly, you seem like you've had a bad experience with cops in the past, already telling me the injustice in my profession. I work with the cynical, lazy, racist, predjudiced, half-ass cops, ticket happy cops, and the on duty sleepers. The true injustice comes from the guys who sloth their way through a career just to get a pension.
You did fire me up and piss me off with that comment because I actually take pride in what I do and bust my ass off to do a good job.
I was just pointing out the reality, that in every serious crime we investigate, every person we interview always initially lies. Whether its a white lie or a big lie, all of a sudden everybody went blind, they play the game. That's just how it is, I'm just saying what Ray did is not out of the ordinary in not cooperating with the cops and that it was blown out of proportion because everyone had already decided he was a murderer.
Just a smaller scale example in a generalization i will say while playing devils advocate. when people are honest on a traffic stop and say, "yes, I know you stopped me for speeding, and I'm sorry." Are they really sorry? In the end I don't care, because honesty will get you out of a ticket with me. But when they're driving away they're not feeling bad about speeding, they're feeling relieved because they didn't get a ticket. Now were they honest because they truly felt sorry, or were they honest because they wanted to get out of the ticket?
Either way, I don't care, but we've all lied to avoid consequence at some point in our lives to get out of trouble, keep a friend from getting in trouble, fear, panic, stupidity, or maintain status quo. That was the point I was trying to get across.
Putting up a statue of a human being is idol worship and idol worship is a sin. I am against all statues of individuals, period.
First off my intent was not to "fire you up" or "piss you off" I have a great respect for cops and the job they do. I even have family members that are cops. But I stand by my statement that its just not true that everyone lies to you whether it be a small white lie or a full blown cover up.
And to answer you assumption I've had no "bad" interaction with cops. Have I gotten a ticket( seat belt violation, and a rolling stop just wanted to make it clear before you make a judgement on what it may have been) and been a little upset over it? Sure, but I broke the law and they did they're job. So for you to just assume that only proves your mind is made up with little or no information.
Anyways this is not the place to hash this out but I felt the need to respond to your accusation of having a bad run in with law enforcement. Thanks for the duty you perform and stay safe (and I genuinely mean that)
Follow me on Twitter @rayraycotto
So was the limo driver telling a lie when he told police Lewis was involved in the fight, or when he told the grand jury Lewis was involved in the fight, or when he told the criminal jury Lewis was trying to break up the fight? The prosecutor had his statements to the police and the guy had immunity. He changed his story just like several other people that initially testified Lewis was involved in the fight, but when the trial came they magically forgot what they saw. He lied in court for the Ray.
I don't think of Lewis as a murderer today, nor did I back when this went down. His boys got jumped by some people that couldn't let whatever happened in the club go, and unfortunately they lost their lives because of it. But Lewis did everything he could, right up into the trial, to bury the case and/or lie about his involvement in the incident. He took the plea because he didn't want to risk losing an NFL career because some idiot friends stabbed 2 people to death. It was a smart deal to make.
When i said seem, it wasnt meant sarcastically or as an accusation. It was an inferring statement and My tone was conversational to let you know I'm not one of those cops that's out there ruining people's lives on a power trip. Also I was just admitting to you that I got fired up as a point that I take pride in what I do, but not to make it a thing against you. Just wanted to clear that up.
Again, just to clarify, I didn't say everyone is lying to me, but going into it I have that expectation. It's a way to keep yourself grounded and making sure you do a thorough job and asking a multitude of questions. It's also a way of keeping yourself from taking it personal because when you question someone, you naturally build rapport. If you find out they lied, you need To be able to stay grounded and objective. I just think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
My ultimate point was simply that everyone has/will lie at some point in their lies to avoid some consequence. Not necessarily that everyone is lying to the cops.
Just a heads up, I just re-read our convo and understand how it came across because you can't hear my tone. I want to let you know that telling a cop he has his mind made up with little to no information is offensive and insulting. Im just going to be objective By not taking it that way, but want you to know how that comes across in text only.
Have a good day friend.
Your timeline and testimony are inaccurate, but really it doesn't matter because no one is arguing what ray Lewis did wasn't wrong. I even said he lied and got hit with obstruction. My only point was that that doesn't make him a murderer where many of us had already decided that he is one while basing our opinions on the medias facts.
I don't think he is a murderer. He just went by street code instead of doing what was right after people were killed. Sorry if I can't rally behind a guy for not talking to the po-po!!!
"One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."
I was also implying that the cops were the reason for the bad experience, not you. If its one thing I've learned from being in this profession, is that the assumption that cops are jerks unfortunately applies to 80% of my colleagues. Sorry if it came across the other way.
That is one of the reasons why I take more pride in my job because I know that I do it the right way, and integrity is something that lacks with way too many cops these days. This is coming from one, so you know it's not an assumption.
See, I'm okay with that. Hahaha and I love how you dubbed it street code.
Just want to preface that I'm not looking for a response with this post or trying to start anything or agree with any of it. But I shared this convo with a colleague of mine, and this was his response:
"So when ray lies, everyone says its criminal and a cover up with no hesitation, overlooking all the philanthropic activities he's done with inner city kids in Baltimore and Miami.
But when joe lies to investigators it's a misunderstanding, and everyone rationalizes it in their own way because they refuse to villify the man. The way I see it, both made terrible mistakes and were vilified by the media with those mistakes blown out of proportion because that's who the media wanted to shoulder the blame. Well I say f$3& the media. Both are good men that made some terrible choices who probably wish they could have done things differently."
Guy is about 57 years old and worked a lot of high profile cases, to say the least, he's hated the media for a long time.
Again, that last post is not my opinion, just sharing how those who are not penn staters view the topic. Down vote it if you want, but it's not going to change how the mass public thinks. Which is sad in its own right.
It should remind us that we shouldn't just pick and chose when we want to be part of the mob in a media lynching that has no factual presentment.
I don't care about the Joe vs. Ray thing, as I said earlier. And I agree that people rationalize - it's what people do when something happens to someone important to them.
As for the philanthropic, again, I dunno about all this after reading this article from last week. Also, being philanthropic doesn't change the fact that he helped ruin an unsolved double murder case.
Whatt spare a dime of it for his own charity, The Post has learned.Lewis, who...
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