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Rutgers is such a great job that Mario Cristibol decided to stay at FIU instead of coaching at RU. Then, of course, he was let go the next season.
What are you one of those fans who switch their allegience every couple years? Cool dude. What's next your going to be a Notre Dame fan? Learn you highschool football. Penn State is in a very fertile recruiting ground. Also Pennsylvania is rich with high school football tradition and while down in recent years due to the economy still produces a fair share of talent. Def a top 10 job. Has more resources than florida State, a ton of money at their diposal, and the facilities and tradition to back it up. The only problem is the administration at PSU currently wants to de emphasize football.
Tex, I generally enjoy your perspective but this argument is stupid. People rightfully make fun of the Big 10 as the Big 2 and the Little 8 (or 9 or 10, depending on the time in history). But the Big 8, Oklahoma's ancestral home and where their history was established was the most lopsided conference in the history of CFB. Nebraska and Oklahoma were the HUGE 2 with the Insignificant 6. In the conference's entire history, there were 73 outright conference champions. Nebraska and Oklahoma combined for 56. And other than Colorado's three, the other 14 outright championships were all before 1961. Oklahoma and Nebraska epitomized racking up wins against bad (really bad) teams. And that is the case for most of the teams in the top 10 of overall wins. IIRC, OSU and Michigan both have >70% winning percentages against each of the original Little 8. So calling out Penn State for it is ridiculous.
“We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill
Hard to believe some of these responses. Not even a question PSU is top tier. Money drives a lot of where these programs stand. Enormous alumni base assures the continuation of funding home and putting people in the seats away. Facilities top of the line. Very strong recruiting grounds. Stadium a big plus. Fans are no joke. Student body among the best in the land. University is beautiful and has notoriety not only nationally but world wide.
Again, shocked how poorly some see their own school
Suck It Emmert!! and "Sorry for not being sorry for being a Penn Stater" - Philafan
We are definitely top 10. The article basing it's rankings on a 5 year down period that ended 9 years ago is silly.
Don't mean to continue the "gang up on Texas Lion" fest, but I think you're underestimating our recruiting grounds.
If you're only assigning PA to Penn State as a recruiting territory, then I don't think you should be assigning Texas to Oklahoma. PSU recruits from many states in the northeast, and we're really the only local top tier school here. Texas has two top in-state programs in addition to all the neighboring Universities that steal from it.
I also am confused by the idea of a "consensus" conference title. We won the conference three times since 1994. Just because the Big Ten is run by a bunch of idiots who give out things such as shared titles doesn't mean we didn't win the conference.
Texas, you're placing far too much emphasis on what has been done recently compared to potential. A Penn State program that is not under devastating sanctions and who has a head coach that is younger than 70 has tremendous potential. There's really nothing we're missing compared to these other programs. And if Texas is "GREAT" as a recruiting ground, then I'd call Ohio great (no caps).
Btw, the top 8 should be (in no order) - Michigan, OSU, PSU, Florida, Bama, LSU, Texas and USC. Those are the cream of the crop. Everyone else is demonstratively lower.
EDIT: Actually, I should probably add ND as they now do not seem to care as much about academics and football players (meaning for entrance into the school). So you have 9.
This post was edited by getmyjive11 13 months ago
I grew up as a season ticket holder for Oklahoma football games (a long family history at OU). I have been a Penn Stater since 2010, when I made the best decision of my life to enroll at PSU Main.
PA football pales in comparison to Texas. Even as the second or third most popular school in the state, that recruiting position is much more enviable than PSU's. About PA high school football, it's decent, but people here severely overrate it. The WPIAL was where those studs seemed to come from, and that's nowhere near as strong as it used to be. There will always be a great player every year, and around 5-10 players that can play high level BCS ball. Compare that to about 100 from Texas (no research on my part, just a guesstimation). Compare that to about 100 from Florida (no research on my part, just a guesstimation). Florida State has some money themselves, and their location helps them out quite a bit.
This is a RELATIVE list. Yes, PSU is a very very attractive job, but when you look at it compared to CFB's blue-bloods, it isn't as attractive as others.
Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS
This. PSU has just as strong of an influence as any school in DE, MD/DC, NoVA, NJ, NY and New England. Our recruiting territory is sizeable and it is why we have been able to keep a relatively high level of talent without having an agressive recruiting staff (before BOB) and also without hitting FL, TX or Cali (or even OH much).
I agree with this.
With the right guy at the helm, this is a championship-caliber program. Just like at any other top 15 job.
You can't limit PSU to just PA.
Good point. The whole winning percentage thing is a stupid argument for any program, at least IMO. The most successful programs according to all time wins or percentages typically dominated a period of CFB that was before WW2. Other than "a winning tradition," which is dumb because most kids like to remember watching a team win a natty and not having to look it up on YouTube or read an article from a 1950's newspaper, what does that bring?
Just seems like a silly thing to bring up when trying to say why a program is a great job. Harvard and Yale have great winning percentages historically, but I wouldn't consider them a phenomenal job.
This is not going to be popular, but Texas Lion is not all that off on his assessment. OK and Texas not only get the top talent in their respective states, but they also get high level kids from the South and out West. They pull in top talent each year. PSU does not regularly get high level kids from outside our immediate sphere of influence. It can be argued that we don't necessarily get the top talent in our own state. We also don't pull in top talent from either the South or West. I would have to say that right now OK is a more desirable coaching job than PSU. I think BOB or someone with similar experience should reverse this, but right now no.
That's kinda my point.
PSU can't build it's teams off of purely home-grown talent. We have to cherry pick what we can from OH, VA, NJ, etc, all states where we are not the top dog. Oklahoma is much more of a player in Texas than we have been in our traditional stomping grounds.
The reason we have been down prior to BOB is that Paterno was old did not put and emphasis on recruiting as he should have. At the end, we literally had 4 guys doing our recruiting... McQueary, LJ, Van and Kenney. Dick Anderson tried but he was more of a liability than an asset. Scrap was a non-factor towards the end of his tenure here. Hull didn't recruit. Bugs never made an impact. Joe wouldn't leave State College. Offers would go out late, and we would only send out a handful of offers a year and there were rarely backup plans.
Just look at the class we were going to haul in before the sanctions hit. That is what you can expect from Penn State when it has a willing recruiting staff and no sanctions. Top 10 recruiting in most years with top 15-20 being a "down year" (which would happen like one out of 4 years). Back when Joe was younger, we would take whoever the hell we wanted in the north east. I'm not saying it will be like that in the future, but it's not going to be like the recent past.
EDIT: And what I am saying is that NoVA, MD/DC, NY, NJ and DE should be considered "homegrown talent" to PSU.
True, Texas has a lot more competitive programs taking from the state. There is more than enough HS talent there to sustain those programs though. There is enough to sustain 4 BCS programs, two highly competitive ones, and 5 D1 programs as a whole, and that's only within the state's borders. Then there is OU, LSU, Bama every once in a while and occasionally Arkansas throws their hat in the ring for top players. Texas has a deep enough talent pool to sustain those programs and keep them at a high level. PA doesn't.
Funny you mention top programs stealing recruits, isn't that what has happened with PSU recently? Pryor, and Spence from PA, and many, many more if you want to include every state that we recruit from. PSU is the only big time program in the northeast, that's true, but a lot of these northeastern kids (at least the big time ones that we should care about) aren't staying up here.
I never said we didn't have enormous amounts of potential, everybody in the top 15 has the potential to start a dynasty under the right coach. However, I think we have more obstacles to overcome than many on that list.
About comparing Texas to Ohio in terms of recruiting, you have to be joking. Ohio is very good, but Texas is top 3 state in the nation without a doubt. You're better than that bills.
I think you're exaggerating both sides of it. We're a player in VA and NJ just like Oklahoma is a player in TX.
Personally, I think Penn State's recent recruiting is all that you're looking at, not how Penn State could be recruiting. Given the issues PSU has had to overcome in the last 5+ years, that's hardly a model of what Penn State could be doing in recruiting.
So to you, Texas is "home-grown talent" for Oklahoma, but VA and NJ aren't home-grown talent for PSU?
That really doesn't make sense.
This post was edited by psubills62 13 months ago
That's great, and I don't disagree with you.
I'd still put Texas recruiting above our level of influence in those states. We don't dominate any of them, save Delaware.
JMO, after texas...I feel like 2-11 are basically interchangeable and 12 to 20 is basically interchangeable.
The top 12 (although I don't know if Florida has earned it yet) are the blue bloods of football. They have a mixture of everything. The only thing that affects them is poor coaching...USC under Paul Hackett, Notre Dame (Bob Davie), OSU (Cooper), Bama (Shula), Michigan (Rich Rod), Penn State (the dark ages), Oklahoma (Blake), UGA (Donnan), LSU (Gerry DiNardo).
The others all lack one thing that keeps them from being elite and not having the history of others. TAMU (little brother disease), Florida State (history), Oregon (history/recruiting grounds), UCLA (history/little brother diesease), Nebraska (recruiting grounds), Auburn (Little brother disease), Tennessee (recruiting grounds), Miami (history) and Clemson (history).
Littler brother disease for me - is a program that is always a second place citizen in their state thus have be more successful to compete with some kids.
The bold part is exactly the issue with your arguments. You're only going off of what has happened recently, which we all know is not representative of what Penn State could and should be doing in recruiting.
I don't understand why you're comparing Texas to PA, when we're arguing PSU vs. Oklahoma. If you should be comparing anything to the state of PA, it should be Oklahoma. That's the home state of Oklahoma University, correct? You don't seem to care that they have to dip into Texas, while we're somehow really weak because we have to dip into VA, NJ, etc.
Besides sanctions (which the list supposedly doesn't consider), what obstacles do we have to overcome? We're easily ahead of OK in terms of money being brought in, bigger stadium, rabid fanbase, etc. The fact that you're nitpicking about TX vs. the entire northeast is foolish. A team only needs 20-25 great recruits every year. You don't think PA/NJ/NY/VA/OH/CT/MA could provide Penn State with 20-25 top recruits every year?
I didn't compare them. I said that if Texas is GREAT, then Ohio is great, particularly noting the lack of caps. Texas is above Ohio for sure, but Ohio is right at the top of that next tier after FL/CA/TX.
You know something that makes a job great? Job security. How many ahead of us on that list can boast what Penn State can in that category. Answer: none. Now that may change when a new AD comes along. But a Penn State coach under Tim Curley had nearly iron clad job security no matter how they performed. The worst that would happen is your contract would run out and you wouldn't be retained.
In this era of colleges gone wild with canning coaches after one bad season, that aspect alone should put us higher. All things being equal, it's a huge tiebreaker.
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep"- Glenn Carson
Well while we took a break from recruiting, other programs got their foot in the door. Florida has been a consistent presence with top NJ players recently, and they're not going away anytime soon.
Well then the majority of talent from our "homegrown" areas are going elsewhere. We aren't anywhere close to legitimate locking down those states. I don't know if that'd be possible without sanctions TBH, fighting a war on too many fronts if you're having to expand your "home" recruiting grounds that much.
EDIT: also, this states shouldn't be considered "homegrown." That's kind of an oxymoron, having homegrown talent a few states away. Virginia isn't even a neighboring state.
This post was edited by Texas Lion 13 months ago
I mean if you look at that, there are 50 schools with a foot in the door in Texas, which is what you're arguing is OK's primary recruiting area. Oklahoma landed 2 of the top 35 players in Texas last year and 3 4 star players overall. PSU landed 2 4 star players from NJ while dealing with sanctions. PSU also would have had a better class than OK last year if it weren't for sanctions.
I don't care which job is better, but OK recruits from two states primarily, one isn't a great recruiting state and the other is the most hotly contested state. Hell, OSU had more success with upper echelon Texas talent than OK.
I never said they are locked down. Texas isn't even locked down anymore. Look at all the teams who are feasting on Texas recruits... it's not like Okie and Texas have that thing to themselves. Florida doesn't have Florida to themselves. OSU probably could lock down their state, but Urbs looks like he wants to recruit nationally. Really, today in college football, no school has any area locked down.
Again, you have to look at the way BOB was recruiting before sanctions. That is what we should all expect. Top line talent knocking down the door. And just think, that was for a first year HC who accomplished nothing in that position at that time. I just think you are vastly underrating Penn State.
I never said we were really weak, I said it's a disadvantage that we have to expand into so many different states, states where we aren't top dog and there isn't much top talent traditionally. True, Oklahoma HS football is pretty mediocre, but Oklahoma has a higher traditional standing in Texas than most here seem to realize, and I'd take that recruiting position over having to try and take the top talent year in and year out from so many different states.
I do believe those states can provide enough great recruits for us to be at the top again, but or competition over those BCS-deserving recruits is higher than a lot of other schools.
Didn't realize the distinction, that's on me. I agree though. Georgia is top 4 for sure, and then Ohio IMO.
And recruiting is pretty heavily based on what has happened lately, which is why I argue it so much. While we hit the snooze under Joe, we let other programs get significant footholds in our stomping grounds, and they're the types of programs that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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