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Good, so you were conscious and able to enjoy Frandsen's homer
I like Young, but Frandsen has done nothing, but produce. Best OBP last year and this year on this team. Did very good his last 2 years in AAA as well. He's a keeper, Galvis is a utility IF and maybe SS if Revere keeps getting on base.
Young has actually picked it up at the plate, but he's an absolute butcher in the field. Two more errors Saturday, including the one that put David Wright on base in the 9th. The ball was hit right at him and for some reason he went to a knee to try and field it and he botched it instead. He had a big error Friday, too. There is no reason for him to be playing late in a game with the Phillies in front.
I was there for a bachelor party.. Needless to say we got thrown out in the 7th
Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.
Frandsen absolutely destroys LHP which is obviously a rate commodity on this team. Love to see him platoon at 3rd with Asche next year
Philly fan here and passing along that Yankee and Giants scouts were at the park the other day to see Utley.
I was at the rain-delayed game Tuesday when Cliff Lee pitched. Because it was still raining when the game started I nixed sitting in my upper deck seat and stood under the concourse behind home plate instead. There were two scouts there with radar guns watching Lee closely.
If he's still on the roster after the ASB, well I don't even know how to finish because I've said Amaro should have been fired for like 3 straight years...
He F'd us. Huge contracts to old, declining players. Total disregard for the future a few years ago when he added all these old heads. He's terrible.
Cliff is a very good bargaining chip right now. The last one on the roster. It's time to at least try to bring the farm system back to a little bit of respectability.
Way to sum it up in one line. 100% accurate!
"DOMINATE the state" - James Franklin 1/11/14
I want MLB ready players. With that TV deal coming they should be able to eat some portions of salaries to get a decent return on some guys over the next 6 months.
Which guys? They can eat part of Cliff's contract for sure and get a hell of a haul. They can also eat Paps' contract and get something back. But outside of those two, there isn't great value. Rollins? Utley? Maybe get something back, but they're not really going to get you a good, MLB ready player.
Agree on Lee and Pap. You never know which teams may get desperate, injuries happen and Young, Rollins and Utley might fetch a decent return.
They got a decent return on Thome last year. Kyle Simon is a RH reliever who profiles at a long guy in the bullpen, but has struggled with his control this season with Reading. Gabriel Lino is an upside catcher who is years away, but has tools to work with. His season just started with Williamsport.
Point is, if a guy like Thome can bring those kind of players back you'd have to expect the Phillies could get a step or two better with the likes of Rollins, Utley and Young. They'd have to eat money on Rollins though because he has 1 year left at $11 million and a vesting option for 2015 for the same amount that he'll easily reach baring a major injury.
Far better to keep Lee than take a gamble on prospects. Aces aren't easy to come by. Plus the Phillies will never go for a multi year rebuild....nor should they
That's true, but I don't expect any of them will fetch a "good, MLB ready player." To me, that means an upper tier prospect already waiting to come up or a guy who just came up and is highly touted. I guess I'm just going by what I'd give up, but many GM's do get antsy at the deadline, and those guys are nice names to bring in.
I love Utley (who doesn't around here), but I would never trade for him. His knees are held together by some Elmer's glue at this point. Rollins I would take. Not many shortstops like him, even if he is one of the most frustrating players to watch with the damn first pitch pop ups. Young is still just meh to me, but I could see him having some appeal. I just don't see them getting more than a high ceiling prospect who is far from ready or a medium ceiling prospect closer to MLB ready.
I've heard Profar from Texas and Castellanos from Detroit for Lee and Papelbon, respectively, but I can't imagine either of those teams giving those guys up. There is a benefit that that those teams wouldn't be renting Lee and Pap as they're both signed for two more years with vesting options for a third. The only way the Rangers might dangle Profar is if they aren't committed to playing him at 2B. Andrus just signed a huge deal so he's not going anywhere. Texas would be better off playing Profar at 2B and moving Kinsler to 1B, but so far that hasn't happened (although Kinsler just came back from the DL so maybe the Rangers make that move). Plus, Profar and Castellanos (who is originally a 3B, but was moved to the OF because he's not going to play 3B in Detroit) are cheap, controllable players. No reason to get rid of them really (unless both teams see Lee and Papelbon as the final pieces to winning a World Series this year and/or the next couple years).
But if, and it's a big if, Amaro wants to trade those guys he must get the opposing team's top prospect. I don't want to hear about about some kid who is three years away from Philadelphia who has high upside (Tommy Joseph comes to mind). Amaro has no reason to settle. With the new TV deal coming they won't have any problems paying Lee and Papelbon. It will also help them eat some money if they trade either of those two, but I wouldn't go in with the mindset that they have to eat money. Whoever would trade for those guys would have plenty of money to pay them.
Yeah those guys won't fetch more than B prospects at best (probably a C prospect for Young), but dealing them will save money in the short term (Young and Utley) and long term (Rollins, although they'll probably have to kick in money to the team that trades for him) and also usher in some new players. I don't think Galvis is an every-day player and who knows what Cesar Hernandez can do, but keeping Utley and Rollins around isn't going to do much this season. Utley hasn't been healthy for three years now and Rollins is a shell of himself. He's still a good defender, but his offense has really taken a nose dive the last couple years (albeit he still has spurts where he hits well for a week or 10 days).
The problem with keeping Lee and calling him an ace is if you still think that will be true in 2-3 years. He's signed at $25 million through 2015 plus he has a $27.5 million vesting option for 2016 he'll easily hit baring a major injury. Will the Phillies be better than a .500 team with him by them? Doubtful. Sure, Lee has been fantastic this season and was in 2012, but will he still be that good in 2015 or 2016? If you get another team's top prospect plus another top-5 prospect it might be too good to pass on.
I don't think you realize how big the hole is right now for the Phillies. It's time to sell, sell, sell. Why the hell do you want to keep Lee on a team that has no realistic shot at a championship. If you can get some good young players for him, you do it.
Rollins has value on the bench. Utley is done. I love the guy, but he is done. If we can just give him away, that would be huge.
Get rid of all these guys. Start rebuilding now so that you will have a chance at a good team in a few years. And please, can that bum Amaro.
Believe me, as a fan since the early 80s, I understand the predicament, but Lee should not be traded, even if the Phillies are nothing but a .500 team.
"Why the hell do you want to keep Lee on a team that has no realistic shot at a championship."
Simple, revenues. The Phillies payroll is tied directly to their revenues and they can afford to have a top 5 payroll only because the stadium is mostly full and they sell a ton of merchandise which allows them to survive a mediocre to poor TV deal. If you "sell, sell, sell" as you put it, considering an atrocious FA market this coming offseason and very few tradeable assets in the minors, you are looking at a 90 loss team next year. That means a major reduction in ticket sales (which you are already seeing) and drop in TV viewership less than two years before the TV contract expires. Failure to capitalize on a new TV (thus taking advantage of the significant TV viewership they've enjoyed for the past 5-6 years) will hurt the franchise for a decade. It's far better to have the difference in revenues that an 80-85 win team gives you than taking a chance on a couple of prospects that may or may not ever amount to anything.
As for "good young players in return", who are you talking about exactly? The Phils have been involved in 2 Lee trades in the past 4 years as well as the Halladay trade. Out of the 10 prospects involved in those trades, none have done anything in the majors and only D'Arnaud is even still considered a prospect. (We could discuss the Schilling trade as well). Even if the Phils could get a similar haul to what they gave up when obtaining Pence, you are talking about players that will be 3, 4, 5 years away. Meanwhile the Phillies as an organization revert from a top 5 revenue team to the middle of the pack and can't afford to sign a high end FA if or when one becomes available. It becomes 1995-2004 all over again.
Their revenues give the Phillies a major advantage on most teams. Why would they give that advantage up soley for "prospects"? I have no problem with trading Papalban, MYoung, and possibly Rollins (as soon as I am remotely sold on Galvis' bat, if I ever am). They are far better off in keeping Lee and treading water for a year or two while waiting to see what they have in Franco/Asche/Biddle, keeping the stadium mostly full, cashing in on a new TV deal, continuing to restock the system through the draft, etc., while waiting for a FA or for enough of their lower level prospects to improve to the point where the Phils can become somewhat active in the trade market again.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by MDS99 10 months ago
Jimmy Rollins is more than a bench player, but I respect your opinion.
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