In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 867
Online now 156 Record: 7381 (3/13/2012)
Black shoes, basic blues. No names, all game
Buy, sell and swap tickets
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
I agree. Although apparently the Sox are very interested. Also, Ruben thinks a closer is worth 12 mil, the Phils are floating around .500 and he's had a good season so far. That's a disastrous combo because Ruben will overvalue him and probably not want to sell.
The key is obviously to fire Rube, but nobody has the balls to do it.
Ruben is management's puppet. He always has been. How else can you explain him getting the job? He's been told to act like a contender until the TV deal is inked. Plain and simple. Despite the long term damage such tactics will do.
It's almost a forgone conclusion that if Papelbon and/or Lee is traded, then the Phils would undoubtedly have to throw in some money in order to get back A level prospects. How much depends on the return obviously and I'm sure that is something that RAJ will consider.
What scares me more than anything though is that RAJ will be in charge of the rebuilding movement for the Phillies organization.
The main problem with Amaro, and hence the Phillies, is his stated goal to have them in contention every year. They will never do a real rebuild under his watch, which is what they need. Get used to band aids and glue.
Also, he has shown he is adept at trading prospects, but not acquiring them. The return from Seattle for Lee was embarrassing.
I agree that paying Paplebon that much isn't ideal. And I'm not saying the Cardinals would want to pay him that on their own agenda, but they have a team that can compete for a title this year and for the next few years and the back end of their bullpen is an unknown commodity. Sure, Mojica is 14-for-14 in saves, but before this year he was 4-17. You want that guy closing in the postseason or a guy like Paplebon, who did it well in Boston especially during their World Series run in 2007?
Plus you have to ask, can Motte come back from TJ surgery and be the closer he was in 2011? Who knows. What is known is that Paplebon is a top-five closer with a proven background who is locked up for two, maybe three, more years and parting with prospects (good ones, but still unproven major league commodities) to shore up a weakness isn't far fetched. And if the Phillies kick in some money (maybe $12 million) that makes it even more attractive from St. Louis' perspective.
Closer isn't the biggest issue facing the Cardinals at this point. Mujica is 14/14 in save opportunities, and the bullpen in gneeral has improved mightily since it was retolled. We do have another internal option, who likely is our closer of the future (Rosenthal). Wong will be our second baseman next year, he is more valuable to the Cardinals in the mid to long term future than David Freese at third is. No way does Mo want to pay Papelbon since he is just a closer, especially when looking at long term value.
Adams is much more moveable than Wong at this point.
Eh...the Cardinals are far too smart to do that. They understand, like all teams should, tht relief pitching is an absolute crapshoot from year to year and spending big money on it (even closers) is a fools errand. If only the Phillies could get there. Instead we dropped a few million on a turd like Chad Durbin.
Like I said in another post, yes Mujica is 14/14 in saves but before that he was 4-17 (and I know sometimes a pitcher can get credit for blowing a save even if he gives up a lead in the 8th and wasn't in to close the game out). Plus he's pitched all of 7 2-3 innings in the postseason. Paplebon has seven saves and a 1.00 ERA in 27 postseason innings.
Maybe going for Wong was a reach, but you have to start somewhere (and no way would the Cards even pick up the phone on the prospects ahead of Wong). Wong is a nice player, but probably has two tools (hit and glove). Wong has just 18 homers in 896 minor league at bats and while he has 37 stolen bases he has been caught 16 times. And we all know second baseman don't have much arm. If the Phillies kick in a year of Paplebon on their tab (so now the Cards are paying him 18 million for 2 1/2 seasons) I'd consider giving up a guy with two good tools for a proven closer. That's just me tho.
What if the Phillies pick up a year of Paplebon's contract? So the Cards are now getting him for 2 1/2 years for around $18 million ($6 or slightly less this year, $12 next year and the Phillies pay for 2015).
Ok, I'm going to be straight.
The Cardinals are not trading Wong for a deal that centers around a closer. Especially one that makes as much as Papelbon.
I would possibly point you to Ryan Jackson though. Good, solid prospect. Not for Paps (obviously), but he needs to play, can play 2B-SS-3B effectively, and doesn't look to fit great in the Cards future for whatever reason.
Yeah, I've heard good things about Jackson especially his defense. I've also heard there are questions on if he'll hit in the majors (.275 in the minors with a .694 OPS, which is OK but nothing earth shattering). He's kind of like Freddy Galvis (although Jackson's offensive numbers are better), but Galvis might be a tick better on D.
All pipe dreams. RAJ will screw it up. He learned at the knee of Mr Ed who may have been the most awful GM in major league history.
The Big Whiffer now has 6 Ks in a row w his first AB at Boston. Anyone notice he has influenced Lerch into spitting in his hands between each pitch?
He broke his K streak just now, he hit into a DP. The Philly announcers are blaming the Big Spitters problems on his knee now.
hitting has been a problem for 3 years now... along with age... what does RAJ do?? he gets an ok hitting aged 3B in Michael Young. Not taking anything away from Michael Young hes having a pretty good year but thats not gonna get the Phils the 20+ wins they needed. This team is old and guys are gonna be hurt all year.
Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.
So Dom Brown is on fire. May be NL Player of the month.
Yeah buddy and the Phillies only pulse on offense. (knock on wood)
"DOMINATE the state" - James Franklin 1/11/14
I've been a big Dom Brown supporter since his days in the Phillies farm system. A lot of Phillies fans wanted him gone because he didn't come up and dominate the way people thought he would, but I always thought many of his struggles were the fault of the Phillies. When he first came up in 2010, Shane Victorino had been placed on the DL and Werth was moved to center. When Victorino came off the DL, instead of sending Brown back down to AAA to play everyday the Phillies kept him up and he rode the bench the rest of the way. A guy like Brown, who was set to play football at Miami, needs to play everyday. He played baseball because he was good at it. Football was his first sport. A guy like Brown can't lose 6-8 weeks of development time. That slowed his progress. Plus hand and knee injuries hampered him in 2011-12. And they started tinkering with his swing. Now that he's getting a chance to play everyday Brown is showing all the tools that made him untouchable in trades. And I still think he's a rightfielder. He has a cannon.
Dom Brown gonna fail a drug test soon. I can feel it. That's how things go around here.
Nah, the Phillies suck, so he will have a great season.
He was in this purgatory where playing everyday in AAA wasn't helping him develop, since he was athletic enough to get around the fact that he wasn't very baseball smart or didn't have refined skills.
His development needed to see MLB pitching, where he would be forced to learn how to play baseball at a major league level. Him riding the bench was a byproduct of him in AAA being a waste of time and him not being able to handle MLB pitching at the time.
Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS
Disagree with your last statement. Brown rode the bench in 2010 with the Phillies because Ibanez, Victorino (once he came off the DL) and Werth (moved back to RF once Victorino came back) were the starters. Having him sit around and do nothing was a waste. Since he was far from a finished product he desperately needed at-bats, wherever they may have come, and since he wasn't going to get them with the big club they did his a disservice by not sending him to AAA. At worst he could have continued to work on his defense. Can't do that sitting the pine when there were three established starters on the Phillies. Any prospect would take steps backwards in that situation let alone someone like Brown.
Guess who's hitting 3rd today...
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports