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did anyone every see a team that has so many injuries constantly? Not just to anybody, but your star players. Utley scratched tonight, Howard hurt, Halladay out, Ruiz out, Adams out. This is every year!! You can guarantee J-Roll will see time on the DL. You never see that many stars in football hurt at the same time.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by LionbackerU 15 days ago
Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.
When they are all 35, yes
The Yankees say hi!
I think at one point last season, the Phils had $110 million dollars on the DL at the same time. The players are all getting old together, and we have 90% of our payroll invested in 8 guys.
This ^ And they are still in 1st place
"I'm a Pennsylvania boy with a Penn State heart" JF
Not sure what you honestly expected? Howard and Utley will be hurt EVERY year. Doc was hurt all last year and was obviously hurt all spring. They're all old and have absurd contracts. Injuries aren't the problem, only an excuse. The real problem is a lack of foresight by Amaro is the problem. He should have been fired forever ago. The fact that the Phillies still don't have an advanced statistics department is mind-blowing in this day and age.
They're actually doing okay. I mean they're a game or so behind "the most talented team ever" . If they get on a win streak of 4 or more they could make some noise in the division.
I read today that the Cleveland fans are being Cleveland fans once again #trashyohiopeople
Chris Perez took down his twitter after a rocky closer attempt the other day.
Nick swisher getting bashed for taking days off for the birth of his child
@meyer 4 prez I'm glad Bill K and Alex G keeps it real with us, instead of getting our hopes up.
Amaro pushed all his chips to the middle and went all-in a few years ago. Resigning Howard, getting Lee and Halladay, then Papelbon, resigning Hamels, etc...it was obvious he gambled the future to try to win in the present. I cant blame him for trying, because at the time, it was a gutsy and aggressive series of moves.
Now is the time to decide what to do next. This has to be the last year with this core and then it gets blown up.
This. Amaro is a bum. He obviously didn't learn a thing from Gillick... he has no idea how to build a team. We are old and broken and he just keeps trying to patch things together. The guy needs to wake up... trade, trade, trade. Dump salary, get a young core in here and let them grow.
This, I think his name was Mike Hucklebee, but he was the guy that ran the farm system when Gillick was GM. He was a beast, built that thing up from the ground. Amaro was in the front office, learning nothing. My point: they picked the wrong guy.
Exactly. I mean there is bad luck involved but the risks increase when you rely on so many players in their mid 30s
This post was edited by MDS99 11 months ago
Arbuckle? He left for another job when amaro took over for gillick
Yeah, him. He drafted Utley Howard, and hamels. He is with the Royals now as the number guy, and they are turning things around. I wish the Phillies could replace Amaro with him.
This post was edited by BlueBlood 11 months ago
A lot of people wanted him to replace gillick at the time. He left when he didn't get the job. Big mistake in retrospect
Arbuckle sucked as a minor league director for the Phillies. His drafts were horrendous. There's a reason he's not a gm elsewhere. KC is doing better because they've pick in the top 10 of the draft for the last 15 years so eventually they were going to get some of those picks right and field a talented team.
Arbuckle was great. We had a deep set of arms and some good, young positional players. Amaro pissed most of that away with his efforts to patch up an aging roster with... more age.
I think they have been ok with mediocrity because their filling the stadium for the most part.
I don't agree. We had a lot of great talent in the minors, but most of our good prospects got traded.
To be fair, this hasn't been a real problem until last year because the kept winning, but now we are left with a broken roster of has-beens who's value is severly deminished. Trading some of these guys 2 years ago (when there were real signs of aging) would have yielded some quality. Not anymore. Now you got to get rid of guys simply as a salary dump and hope that you can pick up some good minor league prospects in the process.
The Phillies won 102 games in 2011. Howard was hurt on the last play of the season. Who were you going to trade?
I wouldnt say he pissed most of that away. He gambled by trading those prospects in return for assembling what was, on paper, the best team in baseball. The prospects he traded away havent really done much for the other teams.
They won 102 games, but then got bounced on the first round, then injuries took over. In 2009 and 2010, I cannot criticize Amaro for what he tried to do. We all knew it was a high risk-high reward proposition.
If the Phillies won 2 more WS, then Amaro is a genius with balls of steel. They didnt, so he looks like a goat. But this is more or less what we asked for with the Phillies. For a team that couldnt get 10K fans to the Vet, they were always criticized for not caring, not spending, and not doing what it took to win. Now, they have a higher payroll than Boston, and mortgaged everything to try to win immediately. I have no problem with what they did. Again, we knew it was high risk / high reward.
This post was edited by kjc15600 11 months ago
By two years ago, I meant 2012. Sorry, that was poor wording on my part.
Long post here, but these are the biggest issues in my eyes:
1. Too much money devoted to too few players. When you have four guys making $20-plus million (Howard, Hamels, Halladay and Lee) that's a recipe for disaster. Because when any of those guys go down or start breaking down you don't have the financial resources to make a trade and take on salary or make a significant move in the offseason. Plus you have Utley making $15 million, Paplebon making $12 million and Rollins at one more year at $11 million and an easily obtainable vesting option for another $11 million in 2015. That's just an awful way to construct a team, especially after you've gutted your farm system to make trades (although none of those guys have turned into anything yet, but they'd be cheap replacements who mostly have good upside).
2. The Hunter Pence deal was atrocious. The Phillies gave up four players including three (Singleton, Cosart and Santana) who were among their top 10 prospects. Pence is a nice player, but not worth that kind of haul. Singleton plays first and was blocked by Howard, but Cosart has an electric arm (that might have to move to the bullpen though) and Santana has huge power and a cannon in the outfield. Plus, since Houston never gave Pence a contract extension early in his career he was always going to be due huge raises in arbitration because of his performance. The Phillies had to trade him last season because he would be in line for $15 million or so this year and the Phillies couldn't afford having another one of those players. So they got 50 cents on the dollar for Pence in the San Fran deal, getting a young catcher in Tommy Joseph who has major defensive flaws and a pitcher in Seth Rosin who at best is a No. 3 but might have to move to the bullpen because of a lack of a third pitch.
3. The core group has broken down severely. No GM has a crystal ball to work with, but nobody knew Utley was going to become a shell of himself shortly after his 30th birthday. Howard never had a good body so you knew he was going to get heavy and because of that his legs started giving out. Power hitters are worthless without their legs. I don't necessarily have an issue with the contract Amaro gave Howard, it was when he gave it to him. Howard still had two plus seasons left on his current deal. There was no need to give him a five-year extension beyond that especially at the money they gave him. Halladay has thrown a ton of innings (including 584 1-3 in his first two years in Philly) from his days in Toronto so you just knew at some point there would be arm issues (and for it to be the shoulder is far worse than if he was the elbow). Rollins doesn't have the speed, both in the field and on the bases, to be the player that made him so good from 2005-09.
I have zero problems with the trades Amaro made other than the Pence deal. None of the guys traded for Lee (Carrasco, Knapp, Marson and Donald), Halladay (D'Arnaud, Drabek and Taylor) and Oswalt (Gose and Villar along with JA Happ, who is a nice pitcher but no better than a No. 4 starter) have turned into good major league players. D'Arnaud is a great prospect who can't stay healthy, Gose has a ton of speed but struggles to get on base and Drabek blew out his elbow. Villar might turn into a nice player for the Astros, but he's still at least two years away. Freddy Galvis is a better defender than Villar, who probably has more offensive upside than Galvis.
How to fix it? Let the pending free agents walk except Ruiz, who I'd give a two-year, $12 million deal at most but would love him to sign a one-year deal with a vesting option for 2015, and put that money into signing foreign talent in Latin America and elsewhere. Utley and Halladay should be allowed to leave, but I'd be OK with bringing Halladay back on heavy incentive deal. Utley is going to want three years and that would be way too long in my eyes for a guy who has been hurt for four straight years now. Galvis can play there and while he won't give you the offense, he'll play light-years better defense than Utley ever could.
You have to hope guys like Ethan Martin and Jesse Biddle can step into the rotation in the next year or two while Cody Asche mans third base until Maikel Franco is ready in 2016. Beyond that, most prospects like Quinn are three or four years away.
Howard isn't going anywhere so Phillies fans are just going to deal with three more years of him. The only way the Phillies would be able to trade him is if they ate 80-90 percent of his money and even then that might not be enough. The prospects sent back wouldn't be prospects at all so it wouldn't be worth it. The hope is that Dom Brown can fulfill his potential and return to right field (where his arm plays) and that Darin Ruf can turn into a serviceable (and cheap) LF who can hit .260 and hit 20-25 home runs.
Hamels needs to step up and be the ace he's been paid to be. No more crying about pitching to Kratz or storming out of the locker room because he didn't get enough run support. This guy is making an average of $24 million for the next six years and needs to become the second best lefthander (after Kershaw) in the NL or the Phillies are doomed.
I am not a Philly fan and have only seen then a few times over the last 2 years, but it seems like they lost a lot of heart and cohesiveness after Victorino was traded.
The phils only have a few good prospects. Biddle's anywhere from a 2-4. Morgan is a 4-5. Hernandez produces well but doesn't get the buzz that other prospects get, so idk what's up with him (probably doesn't pass the eye test). Roman Quinn is a young kid who I think will be a great leadoff guy in 2-3 years. He's struggled moving up a level this year but seems to be turning it around (brought the average up 50 points just this month and he walks (much to Amaro's chagrin). Larry Greene stinks, he's Ryan Howard 2.0. Great power, but can't hit the ball so it doesn't show. He does walk a ton though (like Howard when he was young). The best prospect in the system though imo is Maikel Franco. It's his first year in High-A ball and he's hitting .299/.351/.542 with 8 HR's and 33 RBI. I've also heard he's already above average at 3B. I know there are a few Cody Ashe supporters out there, but Franco has an All-Star ceiling, way above what Ashe has. Hopefully he can follow through.
Still shocks me how much we gave up for Pence.
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