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point taken, but I maintain that security at schools is something we can control to some extent. like I said, the school I send my son to has fingerprint recognition to get through the door and plenty of urban schools have metal detectors and police stationed in the school. I appreciate your point, we can't be safe all the time and we can only do so much. However, there are technologies and preventative measures that can and do help prevent this kind of thing.
As for technology to identify candidates.... your are entering into the "Minority Report" issue. I'm a psychology grad student and even if we had the ability to predict that type of risk at a very reliable rate, what can we do about it? lock people up because we think, with a 95% confidence, that someone is at risk to go on a rampage? do we somehow force them into counseling is they have not broken any laws? It's just not feasible and not something we will ever see. That's not to say that we can't do better. The case of the VT shooting is a good example. They had concerns and a chance to expand the services for him. although, he could have refused them though and unless he was making direct threats, no one could force him into treatment.
lastly, unfortunately, research budgets are getting slashed and there is no money to pour.
This post was edited by spud358 16 months ago
Maybe Chris Rock was on to something when he said you can't control guns...if they want to stop the violence, charge $5000 per bullet.
No, you can't force someone into counseling, and you can't arrest them for what they might do, but you can certainly alert friends, family, etc, so that they can monitor the person's actions and remove easily accessible firearms, as in this case; you can place their names on firearms registries so they can't purchase weapons legally; you can forcibly commit them if they seem to be a threat to harm themselves or others; you can alert local authorities; and you can intervene other ways which might not reach every single person, but could make a significant impact. And yes, at some point, we may be forced to have a hard discussion in this country about forcible medication - injectable, time-release drugs to help those with mental issues remain stable. The resources exist - that was the point of my original post in this thread; we simply have to start thinking about this situation as defense of our population from domestic terrorism, not just "mental health treatment"
I make my own, as many others do. So that, while it may for some, will not work for all.
that's not completely accurate. Unless someone willingly signs a release, we can not even tell family and close friends unless there is clear threat of danger. Maybe a discussion about changes to the confidentiality laws is a good place to start. What you suggest is already happening, or at least should be happening based on best practices. The issue is that much of the time there is no clear threat of danger to self or others presented. It would be much easier if every person that did something like this was in treatment and telling their treatment providers that they think about shooting people, but that's simply not the case.
I'm not talking about what we do now, I'm talking about the changes to public policy and resource allocation we should be thinking about in light of the increased frequency and severity of these events. Like I said in the earlier post, if these acts were being committed by Islamic terrorists, the national outcry would be deafening, and the resources being devoted to preventing these acts would be massive. The solutions here are going to multi-layered and nuanced, and will require hard conversations about civil liberties, mental health conditions, cultural norms, violence in movies and video games, access to weapons, etc. We cannot continue to approach them incrementally though - we need to think of this as a war on our neighbors, our families, and our children, and act accordingly. The one thing I hope we DON'T do is place our kids in elementary schools with metal detectors and armed guards.
I agree that there are often no strong signals, but like you I'm a grad student, (in health policy) and have spent 15 years in public policy, government, politics, etc. I'm confident we can reduce these events with the right amount of focus and resources.
I saw this thread up and wasn't gonna comment. I was crying when I heard about this I cannot imagine what these families are going through. Such a tragic situation what is wrong with the human race.
It is alarming because the rate at which these incidents are occuring is increasing. There is something wrong with a culture when things like this happen more frequently.
This school appeared to have an excellent security system but if it was the teachers son they probably buzzed him in. I think its sad but i think its to the point not only should people be buzzed in they should be searched. That goes for parents relatives anyone.
Turns out he broke glass and forced his way in.
October 12, 2013. PSU 43 - UM 40 (4 OT). Unfortunately this fan wasn't around long enough to see it!
Better security and increased gun control might have prevented this tragedy, but it doesn't solve the root problem: there are really messed up people who live freely with access to both the most dangerous things (weapons of any kind) and our most precious things (our children).
This post was edited by pab203psu 16 months ago
I just cannot come to terms...... He had no ties to the school...... he just decided to kill little kids....mental illness, guns, and anything else... it makes no sense....
PENN STATE FOREVER
Phila his mom was a teacher there.
No she wasn't. They are now saying that was mis-reported.
That is the last I read....
Wow wtf. Have tried to keep from watching it today.
I heard the mom was a teacher, but wow.
Some people are deranged. I just can't comprehend why somebody would do that.
Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS
they said she may have worked (not a teacher) for the school years ago but not formal connection had been made....
It really is like a 20 year old decided to kill children for no reason....
Still turning my stomach.... tears.
me too. :-(
They reported multiple bullet wounds for the victims..... I am just sick over it.....
Lots of people have been wondering about the school safety standards, but turning the building into a prison, there isn't much you can do to stop a determined phycho. .
More than just football
The guy wasn't schizophrenic or anything imo. He was probably just a sociopath. No emotion whatsoever, so he killed. The worst thing is that the media just covers this non stop. Its a disservice to the people who died. Move on with coverage. This guy wins by getting covered on the news. He was a shut in sociopath outcast who now is famous. He wins. The fact is that the news loves covering the bad stuff.
I have one upvote left, and I am not afraid to use it!!!
Yeah, but what's disturbing is that his 15-min of fame came long after his death. Psychopath indeed. Why don't these people kill themselves first? And yes, the media feeds these sicko Psychos by their non-stop coverage.
Tim Tolley @TimTolleyPSU 14 Dec.
Little guy is home from school. It's pizza, movie, ice cream, popcorn, hug time. Catch ya later.
...too young to have kids so I can't even fathom what it must be like for parents. Saw this tweet & it put it a little into perspective for me.
"On paper they have nothing to play for– no bowl games, rankings, or championships– yet they play like they have everything on the line."
When nothing in life satisfies you then you are obviously willing to go out the way he did. He did that. He got his attention at the cost of his life and unfortunately others. I am no psychologist, but this is how I see it. A sociopath feels no emotion whatsoever (think Dexter), maybe in his mind he longed to feel something. Killing kids was something he used to try and feel something. When he felt nothing he killed himself. This is a sane person trying to navigate the mind of a crazy person.
Bottom line is that we need to let the victims rest, they are safe now. Let their families grieve in peace and cope themselves. Prayers go out to all of them.
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