In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 867
Online now 209 Record: 7381 (3/13/2012)
Black shoes, basic blues. No names, all game
Buy, sell and swap tickets
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
In Canada Don Cherry and others are saying that the good teams in the tournament are only good because a lot of their players play in the Canadian junior leagues. That is, in a round about way the tournament results are a vindication of Canadian hockey superiority. I continue to believe that their stubborn over-confidence is hurting Canadian hockey. They should spend some time studying what other countries are doing.
Really strange how bad we own Sweden at the World Junior's. 12 straight games without a loss
Grimaldi scored a really soft goal and then got a lucky bounce on his second, but I'll take it.
Defense and goaltending were really top-notch all tourney. "Johnny Hockey" Gaudreau was the most fun forward to watch on any team. He is tiny, but the Flames got a steal in the fourth round.
I really thought Jake McCabe (Wisconsin) was the key to the team. Once they moved him up to the top D-pair, that really setted in Seth Jones, and they were a great shutdown pair. I think they were out on the ice for close to the final 2 minutes in the Gold medal game. Trouba (Michigan) was very good, but I was surprised he won the top D-man award - he racked up a lot of points against the teams that didn't make the semis.
Great day for USA Hockey!
Bob McKenzie brought up a good point in his book ("Hockey Dad: True Confessions Of A (Crazy) Hockey Parent," it's a great read) Canada, and even the US somewhat, starts putting systems in place far too early in youth hockey. Where in Europe, the emphasis is placed on individual skills for a long time. I agree with him in that it's a big reason behind the North American star players being pretty vanilla and safe, while the European stars are flashy and risky.
I don't think one way is better than the other, but I do think North American youth programs need to work on letting kids be kids more. Unstructured scrimmaging or random stick and puck time is often treated as a reward or a treat, but it's times like that where you can really work on creativity and try new things without having to worry about a coach yelling at you messing the drill up.
The US got its shit together after that loss to Canada in the early rounds. Pretty impressive beating Czech Republic 7-0, Canada 5-1 and then Sweden 3-1 to win it. 15-2 against those three is pretty impressive.
I just don't get the RNH for offensive player of the tournament. Maybe his name got it. Gaudreau deserved it. After all, his team won it all and RNH didn't even get a medal.
Gibby was awesome and it was a bonus to see Grimaldi get on the board with two markers. McCabe was solid. I was rooting for him this tournament and now that its over, I will hang him in effigy the rest of the year since he plays for Wisky.
Canada had a good bit of NHL players on the team since we are in the lockout. Should be no reason Canada not winning it.
"Whoever’s trying to kill me isn’t getting the job done. But one day, I’m going to punch that f___r in the face."
Why shouldnt we start early? USA just won the World Juniors and last Olympics the 2 teams that supposedly start the earliest (I believe I started age 4 or 5 in mini-mites) were in the final.
Actually, the shift is changing in USA Hockey. My son is playing Squirts and now the USA model is to put the majority of the training into skating. Apparently USA Hockey have studied the Finns, Czechs, Russians and Swedes and come up with this plan to give the youth hockey players a heavy dose of skating and let the rest of the stuff take its course. Something like 70% skating; 20% skill work and 10% game preparation is what they want.
You sort of saw the skating part this year with the Americans. They were the best skating team in the tournament and that included the Canadians which had kids with NHL experience.
Because focusing on systems too much too early and not enough on individual skills hampers creative development.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of making the game better as a whole, not just making our national teams more successful.
That's good to hear they're trying to evolve. It's been a long time since I was a youth player, and I had my fair share of coaches who did their best to suck the fun out of playing by cramming us into a system with no room for innovation.
Did they ever increase the age at which contact is implemented? I remember a few years ago there was talk about making pee wee non-contact, and pushing it up to bantam instead. I was fully against that when I first heard about it.
They moved it to 13 I believe. My son is bummed. He is a squirt and wants contact. I said three more years. He looked at me and said that's too bad.
Congrats on the US win, they deserved it. Canada was flat all tournament and showed no emotion. It's the emotion that always seems to put Canada over the edge and when it is not there we don't win. I think that some of the issue is the system problem that was mentioned earlier, kids don't always develop as well as they might but to suggest that Canada is on a slow decline is probably a little unfair. The rest of the world caught up a long time ago when you look at the international game, what some people forget, most of them the ones going crazy up here whenever Canada loses in hockey is that Canada could field three or four teams in competitions like this and any of them would have a decent chance against almost anyone they played. Subban is a perfect example of that. I think he played well, but read the media up here and most thought he should not have even made the team and that he is there because of name only. He was outplayed through the training camp for sure. The other factor is that Canadian kids or anyone in Jr a are training for the pros, not international games. They are different. Until the NHL focus's more on the skilled players, Canada wont train its kids or play like Europeans.
As far as the weight training and conditioning, that is changing. Not sure what you see in the west or Q yet but most major teams in the O are now running kids through personal trainers or team training sessions at specialty training centres. The team foots the bill and the training is by the same people/places that the NHL guys go to when they are back in town. The knights (currently the best Jr program in Canada) puts a significant focus on off ice training and has for years now.
Regardless, great win by your boys and if it wasn't us I am glad it was you!
Edit: oh yeah, I apologize for Cherry....he is getting old ya know....
This post was edited by PSUfaninOnt 15 months ago
Question for you if I may. It seems like Canada has had spotty at best goaltending in this tournament for many years. Any ideas as to why? Thanks
Maybe I'm a bit off here, but could Canada's failure have something to do with being too overconfident? I mean, that was a collection of riches there and it failed to medal. I mean RNH, Hamilton, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Strome, Reilly, Harrington, Subban, Reinhart (before suspension) - that is alot of talent.
This post was edited by Hamilton Lion 15 months ago
Don't think it was over confidence, most of the players at that level that I know here get how good the rest of the world is now and there was never any indication that I saw about over confidence. If anything I think they were feeling a lot of pressure - anything less than gold and they get trashed here, it's crazy. With all the pro's or projected pro's available everyone thought this would be like the last lockout team which was ridiculous. that year is was guys like Bergeron, Crosby, Richards, Getzlaf, Carter, Perry, Weber, Seabrook, Phaneuf, etc... and this team did not have players like that. Not saying they didn't have talent this year and they should not have done better with it, but they were trying to live up to expectations they had no chance of meeting and I think it effected how they played.
They also played careful and flat the whole tournament. The early suspensions didn't help, guys were afraid to hit anyone which is a huge part of any Canadian teams game. Not trying to make excuses for them, they should have done better and should have been more motivated. The coach is taking a lot of heat here as well. people don;t think he had them ready.
With regards to the goalies, I am not sure. I think some of it has been called the Patrick Roy effect...the best athletes want to be Crosby or Getzlaf or Iginla etc growing up now. When Canadian goalies were stealing the show, Roy and Brodeur were the stars and all the young kids, esp in Quebec, wanted to be them. the best athletes became goalies. Not sure I buy it completely but their might be something to it. Kipper did well a few yrs back and next thing there was a number of good goalies coming out of Finland. Who knows. Like I said in the initial post though, there were three other goalies that most think out played Subban at camp. Beyond that when the Canada=Russia series is on there are always goalies there that don't even get invited to camp that play for one of the leagues that shine against them. Take Canada's top 10 goalies and match them 1 through 10 against anyone and I think Canada does quite well, just no superstars right now.
Canadians have trouble with it but you are not going to have superstars every year. 2006-08 were pretty good, dropped off a little in 09-12 hasn't been great, but I don't think it has been the reason they haven't won.
I think after last years let down the US were motivated. heres to a great tournament in Sweden next year.
I think one problem with hockey in the US is the cost. I know in Denver when my kids played it was fairly expensive so many kids don't get to play. Coaches putting in systems are a huge problem in all sports and it does hurt the development of players. I remember a quote from the Swedish coach, Curt Lundmark, back in the day talking about how do you coach Peter Forsberg? He said I don't try too much because I don't want him to lose his instinctive play making ability.
That's not only terrible, but also puts these kids at risk of more injuries down the road due to inexperience in both giving and receiving hits.
Makes no sense to me at all to wait until half of these kids are physically maturing and half aren't to let them start hitting with reckless abandon. Get them acclimated and educated and practiced on the physical aspect of the sport before they have the physical ability to do damage with it.
Here is one article.
It was his second notable social media rant of the tournament, after he seemed to take offence to comments by Russian star Nail Yakupov
And that would be why I apologized for Cherry in the edit for my first post.......beyond the fact that he can be a little xenophobic, you get better playing against the best in the world so while yes, playing in Jr A may help other nations team improve but the Canadians that get to play against the best from other countries also get better.....Does he think that there are players not making team Canada cause they couldn't make the top 15 on a Jr A roster......
Does USA Hockey have any dominate offensive minded players who are projected to be future studs in the NHL. USA Hockey has had some sucess with defensemen and goalies in the early first round of recent drafts. How about fowards/centers. There are some decent scorers born in the USA (Parise, Kane, Kessel), but when will USA Hockey develop a player comparable to Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Malkin, etc. There were only 2 American born players in the top 30 for total points in 2011-2012.
They moved it to Bantam (14-15). They did it because at the younger age group there was a much bigger size difference because half the kids hit puberty while fahd had not.
They still allow "contact" in Pee Wee just not full blown checking. This also promotes skating over just being big and physical at that age.
Seth Jones, the son of former NBAer Popeye Jones, is supposed to be the next big American. Is he Crosby or Malkin? Nope. However, he could go number one or two in the coming draft.
Not just skating. Skill developmemt in general. The ADM program is designed to put more emphasis on overall developmemt over game pkay st the younger ages. USA hockey is setting limits for practice to game ratios for each age group..
I coach and travel hockey us getting out of control and USA had to to something. I had players on my high school team that played over 100 games in a single season between travel and HS. Throw in 3-4 practices a week and you can see how theses kids get burnt out.
It promotes not knowing how to take a hit.
And waiting until bantam makes the size difference worse. At bantam, you got plenty of kids who have barely entered puberty playing against kids who are practically men already.
He is another defensemen.
The US had not had that top end scorer for quite a few years. This goes back to the argument that three kids get put into system hockey to early. This stunts offensive creativity and growth but really helps defensemen develop faster.
I disagree. And so do USA hockey and Hockey Canada. Both organizations did studies and the size difference is much greater at Pee Wee than Bantam.
And tge not knowing hot to give or receive a hit us on the coaches. It is your responsibility as a coach to instruct your players how to play the game safely.
This post was edited by mugatu11 15 months ago
Wow, I hadn't ever thought about that. Who would that even be, Brett Hull? Even then, I think he spent most of his youth up in Canada, so that doesn't really count.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports