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I am of the thought that his "evolution" on the issue was about dollars, political pressure, and votes.
...not sure who you are, but I know who WE ARE...
I think he honestly thought the way he stands now before. But they poll everything and he likely didn't want to piss off a conservative dem group he may have needed when he wanted it to be about the economy early on. As it few and polls shifted he supported it.
Either way what you said is not wrong.
Sounds like we basically agree on politics, but coming at it from different directions. I'm a registered Democrat, but I don't identify with the "tax and spend" attitude that has become synonymous with Democrats. I actually voted for Romney in this most recent presidential election.
I kinda consider myself a slightly left leaning libertarian.
Random aside to the conversation, I just watched Game Change on HBO (good god Sarah Palin, good god). The last thing McCain says to Palin is not to get roped in with Limbaugh and the extremists, that they would "destroy this party."
Anybody on the boards a Tea Party type? Had an interesting conversation with one of my oldest and best friends a few weeks ago about the Tea Party. I find them an interesting reaction, but don't necessarily disagree with McCain.
Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS
Funny how that works out.
One thing I have learned while participating in this thread is that many folks associated with either party hold positions far more nuanced than their general party line. Yet, neither party operates with much nuance at all. If you vote for a certain party because you agree with their positions on A, B,C, D, and E, you've gotta come to terms with the fact that by assocation, you've also just advanced issues L,M,N,O,P which you may vehemently disagree with.
Yeah...good god Sarah Palin, good god. For the life of me, I can't understand why McCain and his people made that call. I get what they were tryig to do, but there had to be a million better options. Putting Hodges back to return punts was a "game changer" too...didn't mean it was a good idea.
I remember thinking, after seeing a few of her interviews, that McCain had just tanked his opportunity. I think he would've lost that election anyway, but perhaps not in the landslide manner he did (electoral college margins were bad) if he hadn't gone with Palin as his vp choice.
McCain is a great man and a damn good politician, but with Palin in tow he had no chance.
The campaign manager saw a hot woman from Alaska that was an unknown for nearly everybody (similar to the way many didn't know about Obama until the primaries because he had virtually no experience), and saw the women's vote as a good enough counter to the black vote for Obama. Plus, due to her looks, some American men would vote for her anyway because they like to look at her.
The thought of Sarah Palin as an emergency fill-in president is really scary though. She would start a war with Canada because she could.
EDIT: the campaign manager also figured she knew something about national politics. The fact that she knew virtually nothing about any pertinent issues wasn't known to anybody until McCain's people had already picked her.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Texas Lion 9 months ago
As Palin was giving her VP acceptance speech at the RNC, I thought to myself "Obama just locked this thing up."
My wife (gf at the time) was in the next room over, but could hear the speech... And honest-to-God, she yelled over to me, "Who is that speaking? It sounds like a high school campaign speech for class president."
Until that point, I was still a potential McCain vote. Once he made that decision though, it was all over. I couldn't vote for someone who could possibly think picking Sarah Palin was a good strategic decision. I think there were a lot of other people in that boat with me.
That's unbelievable. Why would the campaign manager think that? It's not like she was a US senator or rep. She was the gov (and a relatively newly elected one at that) of a state 1000 miles away from the 48 contiguous.
I still can't believe she didn't know that Africa was one of the continents. I give leeway for stupid mistakes and slip-ups -- we all do that from time to time -- but come on.
This point is flat out amazing. That they did such a poor job researching their VP PICK is just, well... It is difficult to recall a worse campaign decision than that one. I am trying to think of one and I just can't.
This post was edited by LionbackerU 9 months ago
Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good.
Yep...I remember thinking that it would be a great campaign where I could seriously consider both candidates, and then BOOM...the decision. And before we could say "katie kuric interview," we were learning that living near Russia gives one foreign policy experience. Good grief.
That is when I jumped into the same boat you were in...and man was that sucker crowded.
From my understanding, it wasn't McCain or his peoples choice. They were held to the fire by the national Republican party for a "real" Republican.
The choice he really wanted: Joe Lieberman.
1. Bush I is the most under-rated president in history. He did an amazing job but didn't have the charisma that Reagan and Clinton had.
2. I was going to vote for McCain until Palin was chosen. I looked at his age and then looked at her and said "Oh my God, if he croaks we would be doomed."
3. I hate the two party system. Ideologically, I'm a libertarian but voting 3rd party is almost like throwing your vote away.
He ain't heavy - He's my brother!
Well she was a politician. You expect politicians to have SOME basic level of knowledge.
The fact she was near impossible to prep or manage couldn't have been known either.
They were going for the women's/red-blooded-American-men's vote. Not a bad strategy, just ended up picking the worst possible person for it.
Yeah it was pretty bad.
They probably wouldn't have won anyway due to Bush 2 (still gets a bad rap IYAM), but Palin made it embarrassing.
They were told to do something "bold."
Putting a mentally handicapped person in the White House would have certainly done that.
Here is the voting map for the 2012 presidential election. Centre Co is red by a very slim margin. They were blue in 2008. Also, most of eastern PA (Berks co and east) was blue in 2008 while in 2012 you see a lot more red. Definitely a swing area for the state.
Live Election Results and Maps by State, includes 2012 races for President, Senate, House, Governor and Ballot Measures Results.
He can't even run a high school offense.
That was a 10 play college offense, Sir. Dynamic.
Glad you asked. Here are just a few of the many reasons. I know I said I was done with this topic, but I couldn't resist the softball...
Paul has stated he wouldn't have voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act because the law forces private businesses to serve people of all races. Paul, while eschewing racism, made a case that business owners should be allowed to make their own mistakes.
Paul refused to answer a question asking if he thought the Earth was 6,000 years old. Unless a person can refute every science book ever published in the history of the world, the easy answer is “no, it’s probably older than 6,000 years.” Instead, he chose not to answer.
Paul knowingly hired the “Southern Avenger,” Jack Hunter, a pro-secessionist racial extremist. Paul said Hunter was “incredibly talented,” even if some of his writing is “absolutely stupid.”
Paul was quoted as saying the Obama administration was being un-American in criticizing BP following the oil spill. He questioned their need to blame someone, and instead offered that sometimes “accidents just happen.”
This post was edited by OtownPSU 9 months ago
I have no problem. Private business owners should have the ability to decline service to anyone, that shoul dbe their right as it is their business. Obviously there are exceptions like utility companies and other natural monopolies. If they want to alienate a large portion of clientele while also labeling themselves as closed minded (a PR disaster) to stick to their core beliefs that is their own problem. I believe that from small business owners all the way to large, private hospitals.
Now I will wait to hear why I'm a racist.
Your not a racist you just have the ability to think and an open mind.
JMO, but I disagree with that. In my mind that impedes on the equal rights for all, but I also don't view businesses as having all the same rights as individual citizens.
Leads to a potentially problematic situation in some spots of the country.
Just like when he came at me earlier for not defending his President enough the other day, he just shows he doesn't care for anyone else's views. So many ways to go about policies and issues in this country, and while I may not agree with all of them I do work to understand and try to respect as many as possible. Its why I can do my job I do now and why I can have friends like shavi on this board. He and I are on very opposite ends of the spectrum, but he's a very intelligent individual you can argue with. I group Boulder in the same category. An obviously intelligent person, that I just don't agree with. It happens, but everyone on the same page too often leads to groupthink, which is arguably the worst situation in policy formation. Dissent is good.
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