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This is the type of dylusional thinking that is a problem.
1) We don't need McDonalds AA's to be a tourney team year in and year out. Most year in and year out tourney teams don't get those guys. And we don't need them--and we might not even want most of them if it meant bags of money, AAU coach buy-offs, one and done, etc.
2) We need to win games with guys we have and then players will take notice. It won't matter if some highly rated or not, Chambers will get his guys for his system who want to go to class and represent the university well--while also being division one quality athletes. Those players do exist.
Agreed, he's the type of big I'd love to find come out of nowhere.... problem is that if you're over 6'6" and can play the game, you're GOING TO BE NOTICED since like everyone is saying here--everyone wants/needs quality bigs.
How long do you give him? It's not football, only need a few players to turn a team around? What if we don't make the NIT? How does that change your view?
Everyone says he is playing with Ef's kids not a lot of talent, etc. but isn't Frazier one of Ed's kids? Kid can ball
Tubby is a re-tread and has had very little success on the court with his own players; he wouldn't be at PSU very long; as soon as he got some success; he'd jump to a UCLA or Pitt or Nova type job; I'm not sure he's clean as a recruiter; I don't think he's a better "Coach" than Pat; So... as soon as Pat can pull the same level of player as Tubby, I'd rather have Pat.
Yea, Ed's problem wasn't recruiting, it was coaching I hate to say. Ed got Talor, Brooks, Tim, Geary, Jamelle, Burke (initially), Talor's brother (until he melted down).... problem was never getting a few talented guys, it was something else. But there is no question that some of Ed's kids had/have talent. Shit, even Jerry Dunn recruited talented players. It takes more than just talent.
And sure, it only takes a couple of year to turn a program around if you can get those players, but you have no idea how dirty some of these quick turn around school are or aren't. The slow build it sustainable if you do it right, and I'm positive that Pat will build it slowly and in a sustainable fashion.
If he is as good of a coach as you think and can get the kids to buy into the system we should have been a lot better, no? I watched Virginia a few times this year and wow no super stars but efficient offense solid defense for sure. I think that is the type of program we end up with...not a bad thing. I just think it is going to be hard to make the tourney out of the big ten with 7-9 teams very good year in and out.
Tubby is a very clean recruiter. One of the most respected coaches for his integrity in the business.
Pat's fine though. Basketball isn't just as simple as people are making it out to be.
1) We would have been an NIT team with Tim. THAT'S why we weren't better. Short memory.
2) UVA has no superstars, but they kill us in recruiting. I think you need to check your facts:
UVA 2010 had 4 top 150 kids (pre-247 basketball ranks so I used Rivals, sorry guys): http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2010/virginia-8;_ylt=Au2MaUj8jmjvp5KtVGlFKeHSO5B4
UVA 2011 had 2 top 150 kids: http://virginia.247sports.com/Season/2011-Basketball/Commits
UVA 2012 had 3 top 50 kids: http://virginia.247sports.com/Season/2012-Basketball/Commits
Next year, more of the same; http://virginia.247sports.com/Season/2013-Basketball/Commits
3) I'd be happy to pull in that level of recruit, and if we do I bet Pat gets a ton out of them year in and year out, to be tourney bound or in the hunt at least half of the time.
I give him another 3-4 years at least. I'd really be surprised if we don't see some nice progress next year. If we have another really bad season somehow though then I'd start to get a little concerned. If Chambers can't have any success though then I'd really start wondering if anyone that we could possibly get as coach could have the type of success we are are looking for.
As far as having Ed's players, Chambers definitely needs to get a team of all his players in. Ed did give him Frazier who is an absolute stud, but Chambers has a lot to do with Frazier really becoming a top player. Besides Frazier and Marshall though, none of Ed's guys are very good and again I think Marshall taking that next step has a lot to do with Chambers as well.
Agreed, it's not that simple.
Re Tubby, I should rephrase that I don't know how clean of a program he runs.... He might not be involved at the level that a Steve Alford is/was but I don't think he holds those reigns that tightly. He might be well respected, but that doesn't mean his program is squeaky clean either.
Given the break up of the Big East, it would be great if we could get into Philly area for recruits.
Agreed, I think Pat's getting worlds more out of Marshall and Tim than Ed ever would have. And that's not a hit totally on Ed, but a praise of Pat mostly. The guy is just so intense and focused and upbeat. I'd run through a wall for him, and I've been out of school for nearly 10 years.
I think that's a great point. Hadn't thought about it yet, but PSU now has a ton to offer Philly kids who see the new Big Least as a step down in competition level over the B1G.
Tony Bennett recruits pretty damn well and Joe Harris is a stud.
And who is from Philly, has tons of connections in Philly and recruited extremely well for Nova....
To be fair, getting into the tourney without highly rated guys is much easier for mid-major teams. To survive in the big conferences (Big 10 and Big East, specifically), you need talent to keep up with the big established programs that ARE getting the McDonald's AA's.
“We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill
Pitch to a lot of these guys is simple you want to be the guy on a good team in a solid conference or do you want to be one of many at some of these schools. A lot of the big ten schools have done a great job keeping the talent in state (Illinois comes to mind....not so much recently but Self's Chicago connections have been great for the KU pipeline.
Plenty of teams make the tournament without getting McDonald's AA's on a consistent basis. The fact of the matter is the majority of the Mcd. AA's go to the top 10-15 schools. We really aren't anywhere near a program that will be able to attract that type of talent. We need to start winning and winning every single year, until that time we will struggle to recruit with the big time programs, but that doesn't mean we can't still get good players and be a good team year in and year out. I'm not expecting us ever to be a team that competes for the Big 10 title each year or makes a Final Four, I just want us to be a solid team each year and have a chance at making the tournament most years. If we could get to that level I'd be thrilled.
I think we are on the same page. Was disagreeing with others.
and the BigTen expanding in to NJ/MD and possibly into NC/VA should help too. A midwest conference no more.
This thread really took off, huh? Kentucky already signed five in the fall period, they've got two commitments since then and will sign them next month. Penn State inked their four-man recruiting class in the fall period, if you want to take a look at them I attached the story we ran when it happened.
Lions247 breaks down the four members of Penn State basketballs recruiting class, who have all signed their letter of intent to play for the Nittany Lions.
I'm really excited about this freshman class. It's true that they are not heads above what PSU has been able to grab in the past, but as a group, they should be able to help PSU take the next step. 3 of the 4 are top 250 national guys and the one guy that is nationally unranked I might be the most excited about (Woodward). I also like that this class has a pure PG, a combo guard, a swing man, and a true center.
I'd guess that we'll probably have room for one more in the 2014 class when all is said and done, but we are really looking 2 years out (2015-16) for the next time we'll see a major turnover on the roster. That class will be vital to Chamber's mission. He'll be in year 4 and will likely have 4-6 ships available. Some success this season, carried into 2014-15, will go a long way in securing some good recruits for 2015-16. If he can't get the recruits by then, we'll be looking at passing the 5 year mark with little change to show for it.
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