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A lot of talk about the D.P...this was sent to me

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    DW66

  • Very common sense approach to the issue. The young men no playing for penn st. Should not have to suffer for this. There are many issues that need to be addressed and handled judisiously but to even talk of the death penalty is suprfulious. I am not penn st. Fan but feel bad for all of you who love P S U.

    GrayBuck

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    RWC5113 ●

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    psubills62

  • Show me a media member asking for the Death Penalty for PSU Football, and I'll show you a media member with an inferiority complex who is pining for ratings, website hits & public attention.

    WebSiteMob

  • white_out said...

    I hope everyone who thinks/wishes/dreams that PSU gets the death penalty reads this, and reads this closely. *******

    It's amazing that people can't get that this is an administrative problem and not a football problem. It's equally amazing that people can't get that this is a criminal preceding and not an issue where the NCAA has original jurisdiction. There is a lot of wishful thinking in these two regards.

    What does giving the death penalty to Penn State do anyways? It punishes the people who did no wrong in the first place. If Sandusky and Paterno were still part of the team it would be a different matter. Sandusky however is in prison and Paterno is dead. Most of the staff (granted, it should be all of the former staff) is gone, a large number of higher ups at the university that were involved in this are gone... there's nothing left to punish. You can only squeeze so much blood from a turnip.

    And if you do this to the university, who hurts the most? Is the the players that did absolutely nothing wrong? The same players that made a commitment to play for a university and potentially start there? The same students that have already had to make major adjustments in life and would have to make just as many adjustments? The same students that have played hard for a team to get where they are, and would have to start from square one in their senior, their junior, their sophomore seasons?

    How about the student body that has done absolutely nothing wrong? Should we punish them because they simply root for the Nittany Lions? The same students that have supported their team through thick and now thin? The same students that have condemned the university for not taking appropriate action and who have supported the due process of the law?

    How about the student athletes in other sports? Should we punish them for wearing navy and white? By getting rid of the football team for a season and perhaps having them play on the road for future years, we could simply shut down the basketball teams. Perhaps because of this we can take down their renowned volleyball team for what a member of administration did. How do you want to tell the other athletic teams that because of mob opinion that their sports can't run on the same athletic budget?

    How about the community that has supported Penn State through all of these years and have become a part of the Penn State family? What about the businesses that depend upon the business of 107,000+ fans that come in during autumn Saturdays? Perhaps the money will come from elsewhere; surely the dependance on so many patrons is not that much for a mom and pop shop to write off. Perhaps the people who will find unemployment due to a lack of sales will find another job elsewhere in this terrible economy.

    Who will the death penalty punish? It's an easy question to answer when you look at the big picture. Sandusky doesn't care now that the football program has a tarnished reputation; all he has to worry about is living though his jail time. Paterno can't care now; his judgement is in higher hands whatever that judgement may be. To many on this board it's ok to repeat the Treaty of Versailles. All the people who did absolutely nothing wrong have been painted as target practice by many members of this board. And what will it acomplish? Will the rapes be erased? Will Sandusky have never existed?

    Penn State already has a mountain to climb. There will be a good number of suits on their hands and the money is going to flow faster than liqueur after the repeal of the 21st amendment. Their reputation is tarnished and it's going to be a long time before any of the painful memories can be eased. Penn State is only starting the healing process.

    What happened at Penn State is horrible; I'm not excusing Paterno or his staff and administration for what happened. What I am saying however is that any sort of penalty against the student athletes is going to hurt many innocent people and will not affect the perpetrators nor the true victims. If you're ready to nuke central Pennsylvania, remember that you are about to ruin the lives of innocent students, employees, residents and the economy. If you can live with the destruction of an entire community that is still trying to recover from the horror of what happen, then perhaps the death penalty is for you. However, if you listen to reason and if you judge without bias, you will realize that too many innocent people have already been hurt. I appeal to your reason, and I ask that you think before you judge a reeling university before you hand down your own judgement.

    You could make many of these same arguments in any NCAA case. Many have tried and failed.

    I understand and appreciate how much you all love PSU football and that your emotions have the better of you, but you people are rationalizing to delusional levels. You can hurl as many insults at me as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is not looking good for PSU. I don't know how you could possibly read the Emmert letter and then the Freeh report and conclude that you are going to get a pass from the NCAA because there were no rules violated.

    http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2012/ncaa+statement

    Frankly, this is the most egregious violation of the NCAA bylaws Emert cited in the letter imaginable - a million times worse than paying players or fixing ACT scores. It is hard to accept the truth, which is that the institution was beyond rotten at its core, willing to sell its soul to protect the image of the football program.

    Anything less than a 3-year death penalty, you should count your blessings. A chance to hit the reset button won't be the worst thing in the world and you could certainly get the program back to bowl status pretty quickly after coming back. The people in Cleveland survived for a few years without the Browns. It will give you a chance to remodel some of the athletic facilities, settle the lawsuits, spend your money supporting victims of child sex abuse. PSU should probably self impose a 2-yr. suspension of its program and the NCAA might back-off.

    There are things bigger than college football and that is the lesson of all this.

    Even though I am not a PSU alumnus, I always liked and respected Paterno a great deal. I found that awful "death-bed" letter so disappointing because he was still protecting the program.

    JAG24

  • JAG24 said...

    You could make many of these same arguments in any NCAA case. Many have tried and failed.

    I understand and appreciate how much you all love PSU football and that your emotions have the better of you, but you people are rationalizing to delusional levels. You can hurl as many insults at me as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is not looking good for PSU. I don't know how you could possibly read the Emmert letter and then the Freeh report and conclude that you are going to get a pass from the NCAA because there were no rules violated.

    http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2012/ncaa+statement

    Frankly, this is the most egregious violation of the NCAA bylaws Emert cited in the letter imaginable - a million times worse than paying players or fixing ACT scores. It is hard to accept the truth, which is that the institution was beyond rotten at its core, willing to sell its soul to protect the image of the football program.

    Anything less than a 3-year death penalty, you should count your blessings. A chance to hit the reset button won't be the worst thing in the world and you could certainly get the program back to bowl status pretty quickly after coming back. The people in Cleveland survived for a few years without the Browns. It will give you a chance to remodel some of the athletic facilities, settle the lawsuits, spend your money supporting victims of child sex abuse. PSU should probably self impose a 2-yr. suspension of its program and the NCAA might back-off.

    There are things bigger than college football and that is the lesson of all this.

    Even though I am not a PSU alumnus, I always liked and respected Paterno a great deal. I found that awful "death-bed" letter so disappointing because he was still protecting the program.

    I, and all PSU students, alumni and fans totally agree, the victims and the issues are much bigger then football. Football pales in comparison. That has nothing to do with the NCAA and sanctions on the football program. This was a horrible occurrence, but please tell me what NCAA rule the PSU football program has violated?

    PSU as a school and community recognizes the severity of the situation and are doing an enormous amount to change the atmosphere (though only a very few were involved), support the victims, and bring awareness and support to the issues of child abuse. We get it. We are ashamed of what one did and a few allegedly allowed. We are doing more then any other school in promoting and combating the issues. The NCAA has no jurisdiction in this criminal case.

    DW66

  • JAG24 said...

    Anything less than a 3-year death penalty, you should count your blessings. A chance to hit the reset button won't be the worst thing in the world and you could certainly get the program back to bowl status pretty quickly after coming back. The people in Cleveland survived for a few years without the Browns. It will give you a chance to remodel some of the athletic facilities, settle the lawsuits, spend your money supporting victims of child sex abuse. PSU should probably self impose a 2-yr. suspension of its program and the NCAA might back-off.

    There are things bigger than college football and that is the lesson of all this.

    The teach a lesson that "there are things bigger than college football" argument for sanctions is condescending to PSU fans.

    By that reasoning, why doesn't the entire Big Ten not play football for a few seasons to show the nation that its fans care about things other than football?

    Cambria Nittany ●

  • Please. If this had happened at Ohio State, every single one of you would be screaming for the death penalty. I doubt anyone on here would be rushing to the defense of OSU's women's field hockey team.

    FickellEinhorn93919

  • Fickell=Einhorn said...

    Please. If this had happened at Ohio State, every single one of you would be screaming for the death penalty. I doubt anyone on here would be rushing to the defense of OSU's women's field hockey team.

    So your defense of stupidity is that other people would be just as stupid?

    Count me amongst the many humbled fans here. You won't hear me bashing any fan base anytime soon.

    new-era said... Psu doesnt have enough to beat the conferences better teams and wiscy is one of them.

    leftcoastlion

  • Fickell=Einhorn said...

    Please. If this had happened at Ohio State, every single one of you would be screaming for the death penalty. I doubt anyone on here would be rushing to the defense of OSU's women's field hockey team.

    I do not think that OSU deserves the death penalty in this case. It's not a football story, just like PSU's.

    In this case, an OSU medical intern was observed poisoning patients. OSU staff was notified, and they did not report it to police. Instead, they recommended him for positions at other medical institutions. Because of the inaction at OSU, this person went on to murder over 60 people.

    It's a tragedy, OSU failed. They should have done more. They failed in their moral obligation. But it's not a football issue. Just like PSU's situation is not.

    Swango to be tried for OSU murders
    By Ray Lockwood

    Published: Monday, October 16, 2000
    Updated: Friday, June 15, 2012 22:06

    Tomorrow, another chapter will begin in the long story of the former Ohio State medical intern now called "Doctor Death." On that day, Michael Swango will appear in Franklin County Common Pleas Court to answer charges in the murder of Cynthia Ann McGee. He is expected to plead guilty to the 16-year-old homicide in return for a life sentence and no further charges being brought against him in Ohio. With his plea, Swango will admit that as a medical intern at the OSU Medical Center in 1984 he murdered McGee, one of the hospital’s patients. Many questions, however, still remain. The court hearing, for example, will not answer how he was able to murder McGee and without getting caught. Back in 1984, Swango poisoned another patient — Rena Cooper. She lived to tell about it, and yet the case was investigated by OSU Hospitals internally, not by University Police. No action was taken against Swango, except that his residency was later rescinded by the hospitals. Three of the doctors at the hospital even recommended that he be given a permanent medical license despite his loss of residency. Tomorrow’s guilty plea will bring the number of murders Swango has confessed to up to four, but possible victims could number in the dozens, perhaps more. In an interview, James Stewart, author of a major book on Swango, speculated that Swango may have killed at least 35 people, mostly in Zimbabwe, to as many as 60. Last month, Swango pleaded guilty to killing three patients in a New York veterans hospital. Edward Nitkewicz, attorney for the families of the New York victims, said his clients intend to sue OSU for negligence in its investigation of Swango. Hospital officials in New York would also be sued, he said. With no criminal investigation at OSU, Swango was able to go back to his hometown of Quincy, Ill. and non-fatally poison seven paramedics with whom he was working. A criminal investigation and trial yielded convictions on six charges of battery in 1985. During this investigation, then OSU police Chief Peter Herdt, the Quincy Police Department and the Adams County Coroner all accused OSU Hospitals of being non-cooperative.

    Swango to be tried for OSU murders - Campus - The Lantern - Ohio State University

    http://www.thelantern.com/2.1345/swango-to-be-tried-for-osu-murders-1.101326

    www.thelantern.com

    Posas14 ●

  • Posas14 said...

    I do not think that OSU deserves the death penalty in this case. It's not a football story, just like PSU's.

    In this case, an OSU medical intern was observed poisoning patients. OSU staff was notified, and they did not report it to police. Instead, they recommended him for positions at other medical institutions. Because of the inaction at OSU, this person went on to murder over 60 people.

    It's a tragedy, OSU failed. They should have done more. They failed in their moral obligation. But it's not a football issue. Just like PSU's situation is not.

    Swango to be tried for OSU murders By Ray Lockwood

    Published: Monday, October 16, 2000 Updated: Friday, June 15, 2012 22:06

    Tomorrow, another chapter will begin in the long story of the former Ohio State medical intern now called "Doctor Death." On that day, Michael Swango will appear in Franklin County Common Pleas Court to answer charges in the murder of Cynthia Ann McGee. He is expected to plead guilty to the 16-year-old homicide in return for a life sentence and no further charges being brought against him in Ohio. With his plea, Swango will admit that as a medical intern at the OSU Medical Center in 1984 he murdered McGee, one of the hospital’s patients. Many questions, however, still remain. The court hearing, for example, will not answer how he was able to murder McGee and without getting caught. Back in 1984, Swango poisoned another patient — Rena Cooper. She lived to tell about it, and yet the case was investigated by OSU Hospitals internally, not by University Police. No action was taken against Swango, except that his residency was later rescinded by the hospitals. Three of the doctors at the hospital even recommended that he be given a permanent medical license despite his loss of residency. Tomorrow’s guilty plea will bring the number of murders Swango has confessed to up to four, but possible victims could number in the dozens, perhaps more. In an interview, James Stewart, author of a major book on Swango, speculated that Swango may have killed at least 35 people, mostly in Zimbabwe, to as many as 60. Last month, Swango pleaded guilty to killing three patients in a New York veterans hospital. Edward Nitkewicz, attorney for the families of the New York victims, said his clients intend to sue OSU for negligence in its investigation of Swango. Hospital officials in New York would also be sued, he said. With no criminal investigation at OSU, Swango was able to go back to his hometown of Quincy, Ill. and non-fatally poison seven paramedics with whom he was working. A criminal investigation and trial yielded convictions on six charges of battery in 1985. During this investigation, then OSU police Chief Peter Herdt, the Quincy Police Department and the Adams County Coroner all accused OSU Hospitals of being non-cooperative.

    I don't see how any of you can argue that your situation is not a football issue. Your FOOTBALL COACH actively knew about, and then lied for, a child rapist. Read the Freeh report. It's all in there. Why did he do that? TO PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. How is that not a FOOTBALL issue???

    FickellEinhorn93919

  • Fickell=Einhorn said...

    Please. If this had happened at Ohio State, every single one of you would be screaming for the death penalty. I doubt anyone on here would be rushing to the defense of OSU's women's field hockey team.

    Not going to disagree with that. But is there any particular reason our opinion would matter in that case?

    signature image

    psubills62

  • Fickell=Einhorn said...

    I don't see how any of you can argue that your situation is not a football issue. Your FOOTBALL COACH actively knew about, and then lied for, a child rapist. Read the Freeh report. It's all in there. Why did he do that? TO PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. How is that not a FOOTBALL issue???

    Because there's no evidence that he did it FOR THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. OH GEE LOOK IF YOU SAY THINGS WITH CAPS THAT MAKES IT TRUE.

    signature image

    psubills62

  • Fickell=Einhorn said...

    Please. If this had happened at Ohio State, every single one of you would be screaming for the death penalty. I doubt anyone on here would be rushing to the defense of OSU's women's field hockey team.

    I can promise you I wouldn't troll!

    signature image signature image signature image

    Colorado Lion

  • Fickell=Einhorn said...

    I don't see how any of you can argue that your situation is not a football issue. Your FOOTBALL COACH actively knew about, and then lied for, a child rapist. Read the Freeh report. It's all in there. Why did he do that? TO PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. How is that not a FOOTBALL issue???

    Did they close down the OSU hospital? The the Univ. President get fired? Did anyone get fired? Did anyone go to prison for their inaction?

    In our case, we made horrible, likely criminal mistakes. Those responsible are being purged from the University, and are probably going to prison.

    Did that happen at OSU, when they let a serial killer go free?

    Posas14 ●

  • JAG24 said...

    You could make many of these same arguments in any NCAA case. Many have tried and failed.

    I understand and appreciate how much you all love PSU football and that your emotions have the better of you, but you people are rationalizing to delusional levels. You can hurl as many insults at me as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is not looking good for PSU. I don't know how you could possibly read the Emmert letter and then the Freeh report and conclude that you are going to get a pass from the NCAA because there were no rules violated.

    http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2012/ncaa+statement

    Frankly, this is the most egregious violation of the NCAA bylaws Emert cited in the letter imaginable - a million times worse than paying players or fixing ACT scores. It is hard to accept the truth, which is that the institution was beyond rotten at its core, willing to sell its soul to protect the image of the football program.

    Anything less than a 3-year death penalty, you should count your blessings. A chance to hit the reset button won't be the worst thing in the world and you could certainly get the program back to bowl status pretty quickly after coming back. The people in Cleveland survived for a few years without the Browns. It will give you a chance to remodel some of the athletic facilities, settle the lawsuits, spend your money supporting victims of child sex abuse. PSU should probably self impose a 2-yr. suspension of its program and the NCAA might back-off.

    There are things bigger than college football and that is the lesson of all this.

    Even though I am not a PSU alumnus, I always liked and respected Paterno a great deal. I found that awful "death-bed" letter so disappointing because he was still protecting the program.

    I have seen you spew this in several threads. Just curious, how did you come up with 3 years as the over/under? Is that the typical death penalty length the NCAA usually gives out? Is that what Baylor got for the basketball murder cover up?

    And why are we the ones accused of being delusional?

    kjc15600

  • Cambria Nittany said...

    The teach a lesson that "there are things bigger than college football" argument for sanctions is condescending to PSU fans.

    By that reasoning, why doesn't the entire Big Ten not play football for a few seasons to show the nation that its fans care about things other than football?

    Frankly, that wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. Shut all of college football down for a year or two to hit the reset button.

    It's time to completely scrap the NCAA, start from scratch, and rebuild a system from scratch that makes more sense. The system is an abysmal failure at keping this multi-billion dollar industry anywhere close to being in check. If this PSU story doesn't indicate the scope of the problem, I don't know what else could.

    I'm not trying to be condescending to PSU, this football first culture is pretty much pervasive in the college football landscape. All the top programs have it. Even the lower tier programs place too much emphasis on football.

    If this was my school, I'd be going through the 7 stages too. Many of you seem to be stuck at No. 2 - denial - and I can't blame you.

    1.The initial reaction is usually a state of shock and disbelief on hearing news of a loss or death. Somehow, the gravity of the situation does not register. People in this stage tend to disbelieve the information and try and disregard the facts. They may also try and prove that the harbinger of the news is not a reliable source of information.
    2.The next stage is denial, which lasts for a short period of time in most cases. With some, however, it can endure over a period of time. There is denial of the situation, and people in this stage refuse to accept or are unable to accept the reality of the situation.
    3.Bargaining is what most of us do on hearing of a loss. The general sentiment is to put the clock back and reverse the loss or bargain with God. It is characterized by comments like "take me instead".
    4.Guilt usually overlaps bargaining. Although the obvious reaction is to blame oneself, the underlying emotion has undertones of reconciliation with the loss.
    5.Up until this next stage, emotions are felt within oneself. It is when anger is expressed outwardly that the grief process starts to manifest.
    6.Depression, as such, is not a standalone stage of grief. It is a frequent occurrence during the entire grieving process, and may keep on recurring at every stage as well.
    7.Eventually when reality starts setting in and there is a realization that things cannot be reversed, acceptance and hope start moving in the thought process-- sometimes inadvertently. This is the moment when the grieving process moves towards its end.

    JAG24

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    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

  • JAG24 said...

    You could make many of these same arguments in any NCAA case. Many have tried and failed.

    I understand and appreciate how much you all love PSU football and that your emotions have the better of you, but you people are rationalizing to delusional levels. You can hurl as many insults at me as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is not looking good for PSU. I don't know how you could possibly read the Emmert letter and then the Freeh report and conclude that you are going to get a pass from the NCAA because there were no rules violated.

    http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2012/ncaa+statement

    Frankly, this is the most egregious violation of the NCAA bylaws Emert cited in the letter imaginable - a million times worse than paying players or fixing ACT scores. It is hard to accept the truth, which is that the institution was beyond rotten at its core, willing to sell its soul to protect the image of the football program.

    Anything less than a 3-year death penalty, you should count your blessings. A chance to hit the reset button won't be the worst thing in the world and you could certainly get the program back to bowl status pretty quickly after coming back. The people in Cleveland survived for a few years without the Browns. It will give you a chance to remodel some of the athletic facilities, settle the lawsuits, spend your money supporting victims of child sex abuse. PSU should probably self impose a 2-yr. suspension of its program and the NCAA might back-off.

    There are things bigger than college football and that is the lesson of all this.

    Even though I am not a PSU alumnus, I always liked and respected Paterno a great deal. I found that awful "death-bed" letter so disappointing because he was still protecting the program.

    What the heck do the Browns have to do with this? The owner up and moved the team, which I would do too if I were any sort of business trying to operate in Cleveland.

    PSU2001

  • Jag, you simply don't understand what the NCAA is for. This issue is too big for them. They are not qualified to take on this issue. They deal with silly things like paying for a kids pizza, making sure they live like normal college kids, and making sure the playing field is even. When stuff gets serious (criminal) they back away, they always have. They did it in the ND rape/suicide thing, the Colorado rape thing, and the Baylor murder thing (also that OSU thing posted earlier has a lot of similarities). They are saying the stuff they are now to appease people like you and to keep the door open that if they actually find violations later, they can punish us. So you can stop tryin to force feed your 7 stages of grief BS, that we probably all learned in high school, down our throats and stop actin like we're not thinking rationally.

    See what I did there? I backed up everything I said with facts. When you get rid of assumptions and use facts, your argument gets much stronger.

    This post was edited by chasfcd11 on 7/15/2012 at 11:33 AM

    chasfcd11

  • FarmDog12 said...

    How about the military - should we shut it down as there were rapes and murders from with in?

    +1. This is the single best post I've read about the death penalty issue. The US government up to the level of the POTUS is well aware of how rampant sexual assault is in the military. We should close the government for 3-5 years to teach every government worker a lesson. Who cares about the people who had no involvement and the collateral damage?

    signature image

    “We need to keep this (expletive) together,” Mauti and Zordich to Hill

    psujmc1992 ●

  • chasfcd11 said...

    Jag, you simply don't understand what the NCAA is for. This issue is too big for them. They are not qualified to take on this issue. They deal with silly things like paying for a kids pizza, making sure they live like normal college kids, and making sure the playing field is even. When stuff gets serious (criminal) they back away, they always have. They did it in the ND rape/suicide thing, the Colorado rape thing, and the Baylor murder thing (also that OSU thing posted earlier has a lot of similarities). They are saying the stuff they are now to appease people like you and to keep the door open that if they actually do did violations, they can punish us. So you can stop tryin to force feed your 7 stages of grief BS, that we probably all learned in high school, down our throats and stop actin like we're not thinking rationally.

    See what I did there? I backed up everything I said with facts. When you get rid of assumptions and use facts, your argument gets much stronger.

    Cooler heads will prevail in the end. Shutting down and possibly bankrupting the school will not help the victims out in the end. The NCAA really can't say much and it seems that the national witch hunt for the death penalty is starting to slow. Knee jerk reactions are to kill the school, but if the school is to help out finacially at the end of the day, the death penalty kills that. For all of those that want the death penalty, which is more important to you. Seeing a sport stop or seeing millions of dollars go towards charities that can hopefully slow down or prevent actions like this from occuring. This isn't an athletic matter, it's a legal matter and you would think a JAG would know that. You don't go to a small claims court for capital murder and the NCAA isn't even the equivalent of a small claims court. For anyone to call for the death penalty is absurd. There isn't a history of cheating at the school, in fact there is NO HISTORY of it. This is about trying to move forward with positive results. I'm pretty sure all people affiliated with PSU and other schools now know not to turn a blind eye to anything. Stomping out PSU won't make this go away. The people trying to do that can care less about the victims IMO and more about how it will help their recruiting. Which person is the sick one is my question?

    "One man didn't build this program and one man sure as hell cannot tear it down."

    LaJollaLion

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    Posas14 ●

  • chasfcd11 said...

    Jag, you simply don't understand what the NCAA is for. This issue is too big for them. They are not qualified to take on this issue. They deal with silly things like paying for a kids pizza, making sure they live like normal college kids, and making sure the playing field is even. When stuff gets serious (criminal) they back away, they always have. They did it in the ND rape/suicide thing, the Colorado rape thing, and the Baylor murder thing (also that OSU thing posted earlier has a lot of similarities). They are saying the stuff they are now to appease people like you and to keep the door open that if they actually do did violations, they can punish us. So you can stop tryin to force feed your 7 stages of grief BS, that we probably all learned in high school, down our throats and stop actin like we're not thinking rationally.

    See what I did there? I backed up everything I said with facts. When you get rid of assumptions and use facts, your argument gets much stronger.

    The most horrendous institutional cover-up imaginable is the elephant in the room as far as the facts go. This is what the NCAA is supposed to be about at its very core. This couldn't be clearer to everyone outside of Happy Valley, i.e. all of us who aren't in denial or have already passed that stage in the grief process.

    Yes, many of us are in grief. Paterno was a revered and respected figure outside of Happy Valley. This is tragic for all of college football and I am empathetic to PSU as it is a truly great university in many ways. But this is a such a black mark that the NCAA has no choice.

    JAG24

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