The Lions' Pride

Nobody blames the fans except that they continue to stand behind joe pa. If u guys snatch the statue down tonight and remove him from your books...it shows that you find his actions disgusting.

Bottom line, we want you to see that all the good he had done is severely outweighed by this.

As a very young person, I have taken what was not mine, I have plotted against people to cause them discomfort or harm under misguided views of having them "get what they deserve", I have driven intoxicated, I have known of drug dealing and didn't report it, I have snuck around on and stolen friends girlfriends (great friend eh?), etc etc etc. I'm now 32 and none of these activities are part of who I am now.

No, Joe wasn't a teenager when used tragically poor judgment and made terrible decisions for inaction... But if I am judged solely for the worst of my actions that took place a decade + ago, then I'm in serious trouble. None of these confessions compare to "covering up violent sex crimes", but I'm certain there are those out there who are aware of ill-begotten acts who are not "in a position" to act on them, or who do not feel responsible for them. I'm destroyed to find that Joe Pa abandoned his principles in this circumstance, but those who want to demonize him entirely are blind. He was wrong, very wrong. But I envy those who are so righteous that they can live so comfortably in their glass houses, with a big bag of stones they feel they are afforded the luxury of throwing with clear conscience.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Paterno, despite the gigantic mistake he made, did more good in a calendar year than 10 good men will do in their lifetimes. Unfortunately, this sin may have done more bad than most do as well. The math isn't as simple as calling his entire life a sham.

From the Bible:
"All of our works are but filthy rags"
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Nobody is in a position to judge anyone. Only God Almighty sits as judge over us all. The problem many of us fans on the outside have is this cult like worship that PSU fans have for Paterno. He was a human being just like us all. Capable of making as many mistakes or doing as many good deeds as any. You have to wonder if the cult like way Paterno was perceived in Happy Valley didn't play a large roll in all of this. As a long time OSU fan I loved Woody but he was a flawed man and his flaws were there for all to see. Because of that most reasonable fans viewed Hayes only as a coach and that's all. I was talking to someone in my office today and he said if Paterno told the people of Happy Valley to drink poison that half of them probably would. For the next few months and maybe years the hero worship of Paterno needs to go away. After some time has passed perhaps his legacy can be returned to what we all thought it was but for now you guys need to let go of Paterno.

I'll start with Joe screwed up royally in this situation.

Regarding the "cult like" comment. Try to look at things from a PSU fan perspective. Joe is the only PSU football coach that many of us have ever known. I was 1 when he took over from Rip Engle. In that time he's won games, helped a great number of student athletes get a degree, he has mentored kids, given generously, fund raised tons of money and until recently has been a role model for many to look up to. Until November what was there not to like? 40 years of following the leadership certainly is to be perceived as worshiping by other fans who have a coach turn over every 5 years, but 40 years builds up a huge following and loyalty.

Joe was fallible, every fan knew that but it didn't hit home until November. For those in denial from November to yesterday another slap in the face to wake up came to move those on the fence to the other side, that Joe was fallible.

Thanks for stopping by. But, it's not your place to comment on this here and no one here cares what you think.

You do realize that before last November, you could have changed Paterno for Tressel and no-one would have disagreed, right?

Don't take this the wrong way, but who is the "we" that "want[s]" to tell PSU fans what to see or think? *You* want us to see that all the good Joe has done is severely outweighed by his inactions on Sandusky. But do you have PSU's best interests in mind, or simply want to see punishment or unhappy PSU fans? And as noted below, PSU fans have 40+ years of positive history with Joe and may disagree with your assessment of the good outweighing the bad (I think reasonable people can have different views on this issue).

I think a lot of the reaction you see on this board is not so much people defending Joe per se but backlash against ESPN and the mainstream media telling "us" how we should feel about this scandal.

Fair enough, and thanks for the response. Those are all good points.

Like a lot of PSU fans, I'm just tired of ESPN and other talking heads telling people what to think about this scandal or what PSU needs to do to move forward, when they clearly do not have PSU's best interests in mind. Sorry if I lumped you into that group.

That's certainly true of many Buckeye fans and probably a majority of Buckeye fans. I was never a big Tressel guy. He won but I believe he benefited from coaching OSU when the B1G was down and Michigan specifically was down. I did not like his offense and his committment to assistant coaches that were not quality coaches (Bollman, etc.). As a sports fan for over 50 years I've learned over the years that you root for the organiztion and not specific players, coaches, etc. If you put your trust and faith in a man he will surely let you down.

What I dont like is people telling me or our fan base what to do. It is arrogant, self-righteous, and ignorant.

Joe made a huge mistake, but he also did more good than a great majority of people to walk this earth. It is not so simple to just say that this 1 bad mistake outweights all the good he has done. Why? Who is balancing the scale? OSU fans? Pitt fans? It is all from the perspective of each person.

I am not standing behind and defending Joe and am extremely disappointed that someone who lead us on the right path for so many years, failed us terribly. But, to come on here and call us cultists for believing and following a man who has done great things in his life for over 40 years here at PSU is extremely arrogant and ignorant.

We ALL are the moral arbiters. It's what makes up society.

Great hypothetical question, I have one for you--except my question may have some actual facts behind it. Let's say Sandusky did not rape every single child that came through his Second Mile--I assume that to be true. These are disadvantaged kids and I assume this program (I will use your words) helped "put (these kids) lives on a better track and they became upstanding citizens".

So I ask you....does all the good Sandusky's program did for kids he did not abuse suddenly outweigh his bad??

that's great post lefty, +1 sir