The Lions' Pride

I'll take it point by point. That guy transformed the team. NO, that was Pat Gillick. Everyone knows it.

Sure, 30 teams didn't make that move. About 25 of those teams couldn't afford to make the move, nor would doc have accepted the trade to those teams as he had a full no-trade clause and was only willing to go to a contender. The only teams that could have pulled off the move were probably Anaheim/Boston/NY/Philly.

The Lee move back to Seattle was a joke. If you think otherwise, you don't know enough about the situation. Amaro jumped on the first offer. Lee was a top 5 pitcher making 9 million dollars and Amaro jumped on offer #1, an offer that didn't even get Seattle's top prospects. How you can't get a top prospect for a top pitcher at 9 mil is called poor general managing. He could have played that bid off against other teams and gotten a better deal. It's plain and simple.

Ok, I didn't realize that they said the Lee to Seattle was the first offer and that there were better deals out there. I also didn't consider that the GM of the Phillies would not play the bid off against other teams to get a better deal.

How many teams were willing to trade their future star(s) for one year of Cliff Lee ... knowing that only a few teams could actually afford him once he hit free agency? Your Halladay argument needs to be considered in the Lee to Seattle scenario. Other thing to note is that Aumont and Ramirez were considered to have as good a future as Pineda at the time.

My overall assumption is that if you aren't happy with the product over the last several years you will never be happy or satisfied .... no matter the GM. Maybe I'm mistaken, but the Phillies sucked in the early to mid 2000's and for a large part of their history. This guy made the moves and played the hands he was dealt and it resulted, one way or another, in a couple world series appearances, a championship, gained revenue, built excitement, expectations, and a team that has been a mainstay at the top of the NL for last four or five years.

No GM is flawless, and truth be told those prospect deals sometimes work out and other times don't. How is Lastings Milledge, Phil Hughes, or Justin Smoak doing ... then you have guys like Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy who were thought to be of lesser talent and they have done much better than expected.

Yea, my point with the lee trade was that few teams would be willing to get rid of their top guys go one year ... Knowing that only a handful could actually afford him long term. It's not the one year at nine million ... It's the 5 at 20 teams shied away from.

I agree that money covers the mistakes, but I believed in and was happy with a lot of moves that Andy mcaphail made over the last few years. I understood the purpose was to build the farm system and fill in the major league holes with one year guys. I think the phillies was to use the frm system to gain MLB stars. No team can have it both ways ya know. If it could happen the Yankees would have their current lineup and the royals farm system.

Thanks for reminding me I'm an O's fan haha ... It is seriously the main reason I can't relate to your opinion and struggle with that mindset. It's basically been a lifetime of losing for me.

Pirates fans, what do y'all think of Shelby Ford? Is he solid?

I know he was recently released because of some hamstring problem, but he was supposed to be pretty good before this all went down.

Any chance he could get another shot somewhere? Is he deserving?

And just voted one of the most underrated pitchers in baseball by the players. Good week for Vance

Woohoo! Let's Go Mets! So pumped for Johan!

It's the Mets dude, just let them have it.

Fuckin whorish umpires.

Typical Cards fan....

The new CBA agreement is bullshit, and was made to protect teams like LA, NY, Boston, and even Philly to a certain extent.

The Rangers got to where they are now because of good scouting, especially Latin America, and great player development. Two straight pennants from a team that's not supposed to do that, and they change the rules up to favor the big boys.

It won't hurt us as badly as y'all, because we're set to has a new media deal that's supposed to be gigantic, but it's still frustrating. Limiting spending on Latin American players? Are you kidding me? Why the hell would they do that?

The new CBA is bullshit, plain and simple. The Yanks (and all big market teams) are butthurt that they're getting their ass kicked in October by better run teams than theirs, and suddenly the rules of the game change to where it benefits their organization's style.

Phillies lose 4 in a row after Cliff Lee strikes out 12 but allows a two run double in the bottom of the 8th. Phillies lose 2-1 to the Dodgers.

I will sit back and wait before saying Neal has done very well drafting. He is loading up with arms. This is where the Pirates failed miserably with Littlefield. Benson (bust regardless), JVB (should have been a hitter), Clinton Johnson (same thing), Maholm (garbage), Bullington (awful), Moskos (ridiculous pick), Bradley (injured), Burnett (never did anything) were all failures. The organization has done a poor job at developing.

We have already seen Stetson Allie be moved to third because he couldn't throw strikes. Maybe this is where he should have been all along. Whether Cole and Tallion become studs is something I can't answer. It looks like that punk the Pirates selected first yesterday - Appel, is already whinning. I say, don't offer him a contract at all ... let him go back into the draft next year - a stronger and deeper draft and hope a Matt Harrington free fall happens to him. He should be thankful he was drafted, instead, he pouts.

Guys need to develop before I give Neal credit.

The offense is what it is. You can't change it. It's been poor for 2.5 years and it's on Amaro. The signs have been there and he has made some crucial mistakes. But that has nothing to do with why Cliff was throwing at around 125 pitches when it was painfully obvious his stuff wasn't there and the only way he was recording outs was fluky throws out at third.