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2012 MLB Season Thread

  • shavisimo2 said...

    I'll break down the moves: Cliff in 09 - good move. However, who wouldn't have made that deal? Honestly, it's a no-brainer, but I still agree, good deal.

    Cliff traded in 09 to Seattle to bring back Halladay. Huge, huge problem with this. Bringing in Doc is great, no problems at all in that. However, he sold Cliff to the very first bidder for a bag of peanuts. You have a huge asset in a pitcher who just dominated for 3 months including in the World Series and didn't have an outrageous contract at the time and you accept the first bid without even shopping him? Imagine the haul Lee could bring in there. It's a terrible trade and it's not even funny. It was the second biggest transactional mistake of the Amaro era.

    Bringing me to the biggest, the Ryan Howard contract. Many lauded the decision at the time, but it was clearly a mistake. He still had a few years left on his deal to see how he progressed considering his body type and age were built to regress considerably very quickly. It was a terrible move. There's no way around it.

    The Ibanez signing was also very blah. 3 years at a big number for 73 year old Raul Ibanez? Give me a break. The Phils were then married to him as an every day hitter in left when he was ranked as the worst or second to worst fielder in the majors. Bad decision.

    Bringing back Lee - good move, no fault there. Stealth move.

    As for the trades with Houston. Amaro benefitted of Ed Wade being the absolute worst GM and wanting to help out Philly cause it's where his heart was (the Phillies signed him back into the management after the Astros fired him, hmmm.....).

    He also depleted the farm system over the years, part of which was necessary for some of these moves, part of which could have been replenished from the Lee deal or other moves.

    Now, the biggest non-transactional error - he hasn't implemented a full statistics department on the Phillies. About half the teams are fully statistical in their player analyses. The Phillies have the smallest statistics department in the majors and I think they just recently added one guy to do it all (and to be honest, I doubt they listen to him). The game has long passed Amaro's style by.

    As for Charlie, don't even get me started...

    I don't disagree, however, I got the feeling most everyone in baseball knew that the Phillies and the Jays were in serious talks about Doc, so the M's were the one's who offered a package. I liked aumont when I saw him in the futures game a few years ago.

    the one thing I think we both agree on is that Amaro would be better off standing pat and letting the system develop.

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    white_out

  • white_out said...

    I don't disagree, however, I got the feeling most everyone in baseball knew that the Phillies and the Jays were in serious talks about Doc, so the M's were the one's who offered a package. I liked aumont when I saw him in the futures game a few years ago.

    the one thing I think we both agree on is that Amaro would be better off standing pat and letting the system develop.

    Everyone knew, but it's not like the Phils were forced to sell Lee at the exact same time. Create a bidding war and at least threaten to keep him and Halladay. It's not like people would be convinced the Phils couldn't pay both. Lee was only making like 9 mil that year. And yes, he should let the system develop a bit where feasible.

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • Trading Lee away was a terrible deal. No use even trying to protect it. They got back a average pitching prospect. (aumont) and an athletic OF who can't hit (gillies). Who does that trade for cliff lee?!? Any good GM would have pushed to get Pineda. How much pressure would that have taken off Amaro? Maybe wouldn't need to sign cliff back. Save cap space for bats and Cole. A lot of the phils problems come from anaro

    chasfcd11

  • MTayl72 said...

    That nickname won't stick. Used too often, we're working on something.

    More importantly, he smoked the ball three of those times (missed the other at bat). The double was off the left field wall. He was a day game (aka heat) away from two HRs.

    Good to know.. saw the box score, not the AB's though... thats very encouraging.

    What nickname are you going with...

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    NotoriousGMan

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    Good to know.. saw the box score, not the AB's though... thats very encouraging.

    What nickname are you going with...

    We (my friends and I) nor the StL media have decided. All I know is he islike my second favorite Cardinal right now. He makes me feel like fat people can do things hahaha. Hefty Hefty Hefty.

    MTayl72

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    And Phils fans bitch about Howard, so now they are going to bring in another guy that does the exact same thing?

    Arod in 2010 and Prince in 05 are both good examples, and both considered the worst seasons of their careers.

    I am not putting too much stock into scoring runs... that's the game drive in runs AND score... not hit some jacks, and get on base a .291 clip... Mark Trumbo is basically Jack Cust from 07-09'... except Cust got on base at almost .400 and took 100BB in a season, MT took 25BB last year...

    No, Trumbo isn't Cust. Cust was all or nothing - 30 homers, .202 average and COULDN'T play a single position well except DH. Trumbo can play first and has the ability to play corner OF.

    Hamilton Lion

  • Welcome aboard the band wagon... glad to have you.

    I know.. I see that idiot, Matt Sebek, throwing a bunch of stuff out there on twitter...

    Wanna talk the future of the Cardinals? I fully understand now why they passed on resigning Albert. I preface it by saying, I understand not all prospects work out.... etc etc etc...
    But they have Shelby Miller coming who is projected to be a stud lefty starter... Carlos Martinez, who is a bit further away, and needs a bit better control, but some scouts think he may have the best arm in the minors.
    Then with the bats... Adams who is already in the STL at 1B... Kolton Wong coming to fill whats been a gaping hole for years at 2B, and gets Dustin Pedroia comparisons. The best of them all may be Oscar Tavares, who at 19 is destroying AA right now, and may be the best pure hitter in the minor leagues... to think they have legit positional players coming at CF, 2B and 1B... its really amazing.
    On top of guys already in the show, and though a bit older... Freese and Craig neither have yet put together a full, injury free season... but if and when they do, may be two of the best pure hitters in the league...
    Its an embarrassment of riches in their system... and I am not even a Cardinals fan and it has be blushing.

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    NotoriousGMan

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    Welcome aboard the band wagon... glad to have you.

    I know.. I see that idiot, Matt Sebek, throwing a bunch of stuff out there on twitter...

    Wanna talk the future of the Cardinals? I fully understand now why they passed on resigning Albert. I preface it by saying, I understand not all prospects work out.... etc etc etc... But they have Shelby Miller coming who is projected to be a stud lefty starter... Carlos Martinez, who is a bit further away, and needs a bit better control, but some scouts think he may have the best arm in the minors. Then with the bats... Adams who is already in the STL at 1B... Kolton Wong coming to fill whats been a gaping hole for years at 2B, and gets Dustin Pedroia comparisons. The best of them all may be Oscar Tavares, who at 19 is destroying AA right now, and may be the best pure hitter in the minor leagues... to think they have legit positional players coming at CF, 2B and 1B... its really amazing. On top of guys already in the show, and though a bit older... Freese and Craig neither have yet put together a full, injury free season... but if and when they do, may be two of the best pure hitters in the league... Its an embarrassment of riches in their system... and I am not even a Cardinals fan and it has be blushing.

    They have a couple more pitchers they like in the minors with Rosenthal and Tyrell Jenkins (former Baylor football signee). I like Adams, always had. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him traded down the road, tbh. It'll be interesting, he shouldn't be in the majors this year. And the plan was for him to just stay down, but we've put 3 1Bmen on the DL in the last few days, so that went out the window.

    Ryan Jackson looks like he may be able to handle SS, glove wise, down the road. But not a great hitter. Taveras is obviously on fire and very young, but there are significant conerns he may not stick in CF. I can live as long as he hits. Kolton Wong is a guy I loved when they picked him because it was just the right fit to fill what we needed. He's like Jon Jay (our CF) for 2B. I won't say Pedroia, that's a jump I think. He and Taveras are batting 2-3 in AA, and I feel bad for opposing pitchers.

    Shelby is right handed, btw. And he pissed the organization off by losing too much weight this offseasona nd it has hurt his stuff a but. That said he is still striking people out by the truckloads last I checked. His minor league career has me thinking Adam Wainwright, but still a ways to go. He needs to master and gain confidence in a secondary pitch.

    Martinez is someone I am more excited about. But is a bigger gamble.

    MTayl72

  • Good luck Phillies fans. Seems like both teams are going through rough patches right now, but these two teams always play some good baseball when they matchup.

    I hope you lose every game in this series. And I mean that in a loving way.

    And if the Cards look like shit I still have this:

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    MTayl72

  • Not a bad start...

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • I have a feeling this one is going to get high scoring. Molina is PISSED (Idk if you guys saw the chat with the ump on the Phillies broadcast) with the strike zone, as he should be. But Jake looks rattled by it which is never good.

    Some hard hit balls by the Cards early as well, but they have to turn them into runs.

    MTayl72

  • MTayl72 said...

    I have a feeling this one is going to get high scoring. Molina is PISSED (Idk if you guys saw the chat with the ump on the Phillies broadcast) with the strike zone, as he should be. But Jake looks rattled by it which is never good.

    Some hard hit balls by the Cards early as well, but they have to turn them into runs.

    they were close pitches, and I wouldn't have had an issue if they were called strikes. As long as the strike zone is that tight for both teams, and doesn't become fluid, neither team really can complain.

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    white_out

  • white_out said...

    they were close pitches, and I wouldn't have had an issue if they were called strikes. As long as the strike zone is that tight for both teams, and doesn't become fluid, neither team really can complain.

    That's how I usually feel, I have no real issue. I just understand why Jake, being that type of pitcher, and Yadi would. Especially because of Yadi's history with this umpire.

    MTayl72

  • I can't even be mad. Its not like they are smoking the ball off of him. Just one of those days. Well damn.

    MTayl72

  • Our boy had a brutal night... the game was on MLBN so I got to see 3 of his final AB's... every time he had men on base, or middle of a rally, and I really thought he was going to get a big knock. The book is already out on him though, Charlie brought the lefty in to face him 2 different times... but not every team is going to have 4 lefties in the pen like Phillie.

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    NotoriousGMan

  • The Pirates are at .500! 24-24 on the year.

    Sloepoke20

  • Best part about being home minus tge lack of classes I'm taking is I can finally watch the yanks....

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    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • ejb5212 said...

    Best part about being home minus tge lack of classes I'm taking is I can finally watch the yanks....

    That sounds terrible...

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • In other news, it's depressing to me that I can't get tickets to Rangers games anymore. Supposedly we're set to break the AL attendance records this year.

    Damn bandwagoners.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • Pirates are .500 on Memorial day! piratepiratepirateNot something I get to say every year...explode

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    Charlie Mike.

    Kinnetaw

  • Kinnetaw said...

    Pirates are .500 on Memorial day! piratepiratepirateNot something I get to say every year...explode

    If the Pirates had any ounce of offense, it might be very well leading the division. Who would have thought McDonald, Bedard, and Burnett would be doing what they are doing and the bullpen has the best ERA in the NL?

    Hamilton Lion

  • Phillies are no longer the only team in last place in the NL East since May 4th. They are tied with the Braves now and are 4 games out of 1st.

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    PSUjosh11

  • the phillies are an old team, make no mistake. they have also been ravaged by injury, but they are old.

    Howard is 33 or 34, Utley is 32, Polanco is 35 or so, Rollins is also in his 30's. Halladay is mid 30's, Lee is 33 or there abouts, Blanton is no spring chicken.

    And in this non-steroid era, that is an old team. 10 years ago, they are in their prime (not accusing any of using PED's).

    My gut feeling is rotator cuff for Doc. It's better to tear a ligament in your elbow now than it is to hurt your shoulder. If that is damaged, not only is his season done, but his career will be shortly. It took Johan, over 18 months to come back and he's still not throwing with the velocity that he once was. Shoulder injuries are death to pitchers.

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    white_out

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    Good to know.. saw the box score, not the AB's though... thats very encouraging.

    What nickname are you going with...

    NGM:

    A little artice from the Post Dispatch about Adams and a potential (list of) nickname(s).

    Goold: The race to nickname 'Mt. Adams'

    TOWER GROVE • In less than two weeks in the majors, the Slugger from Slippery Rock has proved, in the words

    www.stltoday.com

    MTayl72

  • Only disappointment so far is benching him on my fantasy team Friday night v Cliff Lee, after he looked pretty bad against a couple lefty relievers on Thursday... but what a weekend... kid on fire. Thanks for the link.

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    NotoriousGMan