Online Now 848

The Lions' Pride

Black shoes, basic blues. No names, all game

On this Board 547
Record: 4947 (7/23/2012)

Online now 815
Record: 7381 (3/13/2012)

Boards ▾

The Lions' Pride

Black shoes, basic blues. No names, all game

Ticket Exchange

Buy, sell and swap tickets

Reply

2012 MLB Season Thread

  • Hamilton Lion said...

    Phillies are starting to show their age, just like the Yanks.

    They started to show their age in about 2010. The bats disappearing began in the middle of that season and all the guys really started their declines along with hitting the injury bugs. Absent Victorino and Ruiz, everybody began to rapidly decline in 2010 continuing through 2011 and only worsening now. The signs have been on the wall for a long time, but Amaro was too stubborn to notice and made too many poor decisions before that it was going to happen like this. I still think they have a good shot at the playoffs, and who knows what happens once you're in in baseball, but the signs have been around for a while to those Phillies fans who paid attention (which is not the typical fan).

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    Well, good news is... if they decide to tear it down in another six weeks, they will have some players to move to rebuild that farm system. We'll take Victorino and Hamels in Detroit for Castellanos and Turner... Fix 3B for the next decade for you, and a legit young stud with "potential" to be an ace.

    I'm not a Phillies fan. I'm a fan of a team that hasn't won in 19 years.

    I think Hamels will be with the Dodgers next year. They will have tons of jack to throw around. JMO, this is the reason some of these teams signed some of their pending FAs already - Matt Cain got that ridiculous deal in SF and a few others.

    Hamilton Lion ●

  • shavisimo2 said...

    They started to show their age in about 2010. The bats disappearing began in the middle of that season and all the guys really started their declines along with hitting the injury bugs. Absent Victorino and Ruiz, everybody began to rapidly decline in 2010 continuing through 2011 and only worsening now. The signs have been on the wall for a long time, but Amaro was too stubborn to notice and made too many poor decisions before that it was going to happen like this. I still think they have a good shot at the playoffs, and who knows what happens once you're in in baseball, but the signs have been around for a while to those Phillies fans who paid attention (which is not the typical fan).

    I'm not a Phillies fan and I've seen it (mind you, I watch approximately 145 of their games a year).

    The Howard contract is right up there with ARod's as being the worst in baseball. The Phillies are going to regret that deal.

    signature image signature image signature image

    white_out

  • I agree on Hamels to LAD.. he is from SoCal too...
    LAD probably take a run at Josh Hamilton too... though I don't know if I'd take that risk. Not for 8years... besides the whole drug thing... he is just too fragile, and is already approaching 31...

    signature image

    NotoriousGMan

  • Hamilton Lion said...

    Heard the interview. I think it goes deeper than that as well. Bottom line, the farm system is dried up for the most part due to trades. There are few answers on the farm right now that can provide anything. Galvis is up and he could very well be a full-time answer down the road. Philly has had to rely on Wiggington, Nix and others - this was not in the plan. Philly will continue to shell out the $$$ on free agents, but it needs to get back to developing talent on the farm. They really have no trading chips right now - not even Dom Brown.

    They have trade chips in low minors. High potential guys (mostly pitchers). Problem is, they should absolutely not be trading those guys. They don't have the luxury of depth to unload their high end prospects.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • white_out said...

    I'm not a Phillies fan and I've seen it (mind you, I watch approximately 145 of their games a year).

    The Howard contract is right up there with ARod's as being the worst in baseball. The Phillies are going to regret that deal.

    Ruben was an idiot the day he signed it. My friend saw the trade (he's a Sox fan) and he called me just to laugh at me. I had no comeback. Some people around here thought "great, we just locked up a future hall of famer." I thought "great, we just locked up a guy to a huge contract with a body type that will see rapid decline in 2 years and never have a single season where his real dollar value is close to his salary."

    Also, you're an objective fan who knows baseball. If you're watching 145 games of a team you're not a fan of, you understand the game well enough to have seen it a long time ago.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • Hamilton Lion said...

    I'm not a Phillies fan. I'm a fan of a team that hasn't won in 19 years.

    I think Hamels will be with the Dodgers next year. They will have tons of jack to throw around. JMO, this is the reason some of these teams signed some of their pending FAs already - Matt Cain got that ridiculous deal in SF and a few others.

    I think Ruben will scrape together the money to make a very nice run at Hamels. He sees Halladay has lost some velocity (he'll still be great because his control is incredible and always has been even though people around here are already jumping on the Halladay and Lee being over the hill bandwagon). He knows Lee could as well (also a control pitcher over power) and he'll want to lock Cole up given his age. I think LA might offer a longer contract which could entice him. It will be a fun one to watch, but I'm not overly optimistic, nor overly pessimistic about Cole's chances to stay.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • shavisimo2 said...

    They started to show their age in about 2010. The bats disappearing began in the middle of that season and all the guys really started their declines along with hitting the injury bugs. Absent Victorino and Ruiz, everybody began to rapidly decline in 2010 continuing through 2011 and only worsening now. The signs have been on the wall for a long time, but Amaro was too stubborn to notice and made too many poor decisions before that it was going to happen like this. I still think they have a good shot at the playoffs, and who knows what happens once you're in in baseball, but the signs have been around for a while to those Phillies fans who paid attention (which is not the typical fan).

    Yeah, it really baffles me as to why/how we put all of our eggs in one basket (that being pitching) and fail to see that this team is only getting older and more injury prone. Most of these guys are on the downward spiral towards the end of their careers and are past their prime.

    I was in the favor of completely blowing up the team after the playoff loss to the Cards after last season but that didn't happen. We clearly needed offense and they failed to address that in the off-season. So frustrating......

    signature image

    PSUjosh11

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    I agree on Hamels to LAD.. he is from SoCal too... LAD probably take a run at Josh Hamilton too... though I don't know if I'd take that risk. Not for 8years... besides the whole drug thing... he is just too fragile, and is already approaching 31...

    Hamels and Victorino for Kemp. smoke

    signature image

    PSUjosh11

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    I would love to watch him every night...I saw all four AB's sunday, and thought he looked really good. I was excited to see he took two walks last night, because he hasn't been a big BB guy, but off Volquez, it may not count.

    I understand how minor league numbers work, but also see a pattern, a pattern of hitting v every level of competition he has ever faced, that is usually what translates.

    As far as lefties, again he is young, and it takes time. But there are not a wealth of big time lefties in the NLC, so that will help too..

    You are right about Craig, but it will be a struggle for the Cards to keep he and Beltran healthy the rest of the year. The AB's will be there for him.

    Well he hasn't hit anything hard in the last two days. Don't get all hyped about a guy just because he's from PA. That's dumb. That said the Cardinals have solid expectations for him down the road. He may be their future first baseman, or he may be trade bait. I think once Craig comes back for awhile (a few weeks), he may go back down to AAA. He may be riding the busses back and forth this year. Berkman being done, possibly forever, may help him out. But they don't have Matt up here to be part time, that will kill his chances to develop. You also don't sit Allen Craig for Matt Adams.

    MTayl72 ●

  • white_out said...

    The Howard contract is right up there with ARod's as being the worst in baseball. The Phillies are going to regret that deal.

    Don't even get me started with the Howard contract. Once Amaro vied to get that deal done with the absurd numbers it ended up being, I lost all respect for the guy. He's flying this team straight into the ground by trading away all of our top talent in the minors for FA's before the trade deadline.

    signature image

    PSUjosh11

  • I joked around after 2010 that the Phillies should have shopped Utley to the dodgers for a malcontent matt kemp, who was trying to get out of LA.

    Essentially Amaro needs to build from scratch. The have a 2nd baseman in Galvis, but will he ever hit enough to be a 150 game player?

    They have an aging 3rd baseman in Polanco, an old SS, a broken down 2B and a 1st baseman who's coming off a potentially career crippling injury.

    Hunter Pence is a stud, but lacks discipline.

    Victorino is a little guy with a big swing, but WT power.

    Mayberry is a very very intriguing guy. In some ways reminds me of Bernie Williams. He's fast, but a long strider, so he's not a threat on the bases to steal, and just oozes athleticism.

    Ruiz, as most catchers has a 3-5 year window (Pudge and Jorge not withstanding).

    I like this jake dieker kid, alot. Not sure if he will be a closer, but he could be a lock up 8th inning setup guy.

    signature image signature image signature image

    white_out

  • white_out said...

    I joked around after 2010 that the Phillies should have shopped Utley to the dodgers for a malcontent matt kemp, who was trying to get out of LA.

    Essentially Amaro needs to build from scratch. The have a 2nd baseman in Galvis, but will he ever hit enough to be a 150 game player?

    They have an aging 3rd baseman in Polanco, an old SS, a broken down 2B and a 1st baseman who's coming off a potentially career crippling injury.

    Hunter Pence is a stud, but lacks discipline.

    Victorino is a little guy with a big swing, but WT power.

    Mayberry is a very very intriguing guy. In some ways reminds me of Bernie Williams. He's fast, but a long strider, so he's not a threat on the bases to steal, and just oozes athleticism.

    Ruiz, as most catchers has a 3-5 year window (Pudge and Jorge not withstanding).

    I like this jake dieker kid, alot. Not sure if he will be a closer, but he could be a lock up 8th inning setup guy.

    Pretty spot on analysis. I have the same opinions/views on everybody you mentioned.

    Galvis has promise but I'm not sure he can get the job done at the plate on a consistent basis. Mayberry is a nice piece that can play 1B or LF. I know this statement is an oxymoron but the pitching is solid but there's definitely some flaws as well. There's promise low in the minors with pitching but offensively...I see nothing coming up the pipeline.

    signature image

    PSUjosh11

  • white_out said...

    I joked around after 2010 that the Phillies should have shopped Utley to the dodgers for a malcontent matt kemp, who was trying to get out of LA.

    Essentially Amaro needs to build from scratch. The have a 2nd baseman in Galvis, but will he ever hit enough to be a 150 game player?

    They have an aging 3rd baseman in Polanco, an old SS, a broken down 2B and a 1st baseman who's coming off a potentially career crippling injury.

    Hunter Pence is a stud, but lacks discipline.

    Victorino is a little guy with a big swing, but WT power.

    Mayberry is a very very intriguing guy. In some ways reminds me of Bernie Williams. He's fast, but a long strider, so he's not a threat on the bases to steal, and just oozes athleticism.

    Ruiz, as most catchers has a 3-5 year window (Pudge and Jorge not withstanding).

    I like this jake dieker kid, alot. Not sure if he will be a closer, but he could be a lock up 8th inning setup guy.

    Galvis will be fine as an everyday guy. Mayberry is an afterthought and should not be relied on. That's the biggest difference in our views on this team. I think he's great as a bench OF, but not much more. I don't think he'll ever be a good hitter. He's athletic, sure, but will never be a anything more than an average major league OF, and I think average might be a bit of a stretch. Ruiz is Ruiz, luckily he still has a couple productive years left to bridge the gap to Valle (hopefully). Polly should never have been relied on. Jimmy's contract is outrageous, but the market was very thin at SS and they didn't know what they had in Galvis or when Utley was coming back, so it was him or spend a ransom for Reyes. Pence is quality as is Vic. Diekman looks like he could be solid. Time will tell and bullpen arms vary drastically from year to year. The starting pitching in the minors should come up and keep the rotation solid for a while to come, but there aren't many pieces in the batting order.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • Its not dumb, its exciting when a local guy makes it to big time in any sport... now, if I were saying to play him over Craig or Berkman, etc just because he is from PA, then thats dumb... but to be hyped about him is cool.

    I have seen the kid hit many times... I have seen him in the minors, I have seen him in high school. I know guys from PA that scout minor leagues for a living that have traveled with him in the minors to see him hit... kid can hit, flat out.

    For Craig to be anchored at 1B everyday, he still has to stay healthy... so does Beltran, Holiday, Jay... they have enough potential DL stints there to keep him around.

    signature image

    NotoriousGMan

  • This post is for members of Lions247 only. Join now! 30-Day Free Trial

    restoreThe ROAR

  • shavisimo2 said...

    Galvis will be fine as an everyday guy. Mayberry is an afterthought and should not be relied on. That's the biggest difference in our views on this team. I think he's great as a bench OF, but not much more. I don't think he'll ever be a good hitter. He's athletic, sure, but will never be a anything more than an average major league OF, and I think average might be a bit of a stretch. Ruiz is Ruiz, luckily he still has a couple productive years left to bridge the gap to Valle (hopefully). Polly should never have been relied on. Jimmy's contract is outrageous, but the market was very thin at SS and they didn't know what they had in Galvis or when Utley was coming back, so it was him or spend a ransom for Reyes. Pence is quality as is Vic. Diekman looks like he could be solid. Time will tell and bullpen arms vary drastically from year to year. The starting pitching in the minors should come up and keep the rotation solid for a while to come, but there aren't many pieces in the batting order.

    If they don't trade Hamels (for someone like Trumbo and Williams), then Amaro needs to put the checkbook away and go through the rebuilding process and not touch any of the A grade minor leaguers.

    As I said earlier in the thread, Halladay and Lee have 2-3 really good years left. Neither relies on velocity and it's all about location. Get some kids to be groomed for 2-3 years down the road.

    signature image signature image signature image

    white_out

  • This post is for members of Lions247 only. Join now! 30-Day Free Trial

    Hamilton Lion ●

  • white_out said...

    If they don't trade Hamels (for someone like Trumbo and Williams), then Amaro needs to put the checkbook away and go through the rebuilding process and not touch any of the A grade minor leaguers.

    As I said earlier in the thread, Halladay and Lee have 2-3 really good years left. Neither relies on velocity and it's all about location. Get some kids to be groomed for 2-3 years down the road.

    Actually, I think the Pirates should trade Hanrahan to the Angels for Trumbo. That is a win-win for both. Joel would give Scioscia a proven closer, while Trumbo solves the revolving door at first in Pittsburgh. I wouldn't give two craps if he hit .240 as long as he blasted 30 bombs per year, which he would do. He can hit it out of Yellowstone. Hanrahan will also be too pricey for Pittsburgh and quite frankly, what is the point of a sub .500 team having one of the best closers in the game today when you can't get him in there to close it out? It's not rocket science here. It's a no brainer. Unless you think Matt Hague is the long term answer - there is nothing on the farm for three years at least.

    This post was edited by Hamilton Lion on 5/23/2012 at 1:37 PM

    Hamilton Lion ●

  • If it makes you Phillies fans any happier, you can expect a win tonight. Nats are 0-8 this season when going for a sweep, and our most inconsistent pitcher is on the mound.

    NitsAndNats

  • NotoriousG-Man said...

    Its not dumb, its exciting when a local guy makes it to big time in any sport... now, if I were saying to play him over Craig or Berkman, etc just because he is from PA, then thats dumb... but to be hyped about him is cool.

    I have seen the kid hit many times... I have seen him in the minors, I have seen him in high school. I know guys from PA that scout minor leagues for a living that have traveled with him in the minors to see him hit... kid can hit, flat out.

    For Craig to be anchored at 1B everyday, he still has to stay healthy... so does Beltran, Holiday, Jay... they have enough potential DL stints there to keep him around.

    I misworded what I meant, thats my fault. Dont overlook the bad and the possible negative trends for a local kid. Thats my fault.

    MTayl72 ●

  • Nits&Nats said...

    If it makes you Phillies fans any happier, you can expect a win tonight. Nats are 0-8 this season when going for a sweep, and our most inconsistent pitcher is on the mound.

    I'm not holding my breath. haha

    signature image

    PSUjosh11

  • Nits&Nats said...

    If it makes you Phillies fans any happier, you can expect a win tonight. Nats are 0-8 this season when going for a sweep, and our most inconsistent pitcher is on the mound.

    I do expect a win with Hamels on the mound. We'll see if it happens though.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • Hamilton Lion said...

    Actually, I think the Pirates should trade Hanrahan to the Angels for Trumbo. That is a win-win for both. Joel would give Scioscia a proven closer, while Trumbo solves the revolving door at first in Pittsburgh. I wouldn't give two craps if he hit .240 as long as he blasted 30 bombs per year, which he would do. He can hit it out of Yellowstone. Hanrahan will also be too pricey for Pittsburgh and quite frankly, what is the point of a sub .500 team having one of the best closers in the game today when you can't get him in there to close it out? It's not rocket science here. It's a no brainer. Unless you think Matt Hague is the long term answer - there is nothing on the farm for three years at least.

    Ham,
    I agree on the Hanny for Trumbo deal...seems like such a natural fit. Pirates need 1B, LAA desperately needs bullpen help... Pirates have no one coming for 1B at all, Trumbo doesn't have a position in LAA.... Thats a good call. Makes alot more sense than Jerome Williams and Trumbo for Hamels. Do people realize Jerome WIlliams is about 35 years old, debuted in 2002 and then spent the next 8-9 years kicking around the minors before being brought back last year in LA... nice story, but by no means anything Phillie would touch or consider in a Hamels deal.

    signature image

    NotoriousGMan

  • You guys really think the Angels would trade Trumbo for just a bullpen arm? Yes, they need help in the pen. Yes, Hanrahan is very good at that. But Trumbo has proven he could possibly be a 30/30 guy with good speed for a corner infielder and a high OBP. When he puts it together he could be a very good player. A bullpen guy just isn't worth that.

    That would be an absolute fleecing by the Pirates.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

Penn State
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports